US image in world still negative, except in India: Pew

[candypreet]

WASHINGTON, JUNE 24: The US image in the world is generally negative but “Indians hold the most uniformly positive views of Americans,” a survey has said
The overall unfavourable perception around the globe persists even though the Bush administration has been promoting freedom and democracy throughout the world in recent months and has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in relief aid on tsunami relief in the Indian Ocean region, the Pew research organisation has concluded.

Only India and Poland were more upbeat about the United States, while Canadians were just as likely to see China favourably as they were the US.

In Indonesia and Russia, overall opinions of the US have improved significantly.

The Pew global attitudes project, which released its findings on Thursday, is co-chaired by former US secretary of state Madeline Albright and former Senator John C Danforth.

The survey found modest optimism among Muslims that the Middle East will become more democratic.

“Even in countries like Jordan and Pakistan, where America is held in low regard, those who see the region becoming more democratic give some credit to the US for its support of democracy in their countries.”

The conflict in Iraq, Pew found, remains widely and deeply unpopular, and in no country, including the US, does a majority of the public think the war that resulted in Saddam Hussein’s ouster made the world safer.

As leaders of G-8 nations prepare to meet, the Pew survey found that America evokes little confidence on environmental issues. Fewer than one in ten western Europeans say they most trust the US to do the right thing in protecting the world’s environment.

Other countries, the survey found, fare better in the popularity sweepstakes.

Comparing the US with the standing of China in the world, it says: “China is well regarded in both Europe and Asia, although there is considerable wariness about its growing economic and military might. Solid majorities in every European nation, except Turkey, would not like to see China rival the US as a military superpwoer.”

China, Pew said, also tops all other surveyed nations in self-satisfaction with the way things are going there. Among those surveyed in the Communist nation, 88 per cent view their own country favourably, topping second place America, 83 per cent of whose citizens hold their country in high regard.

Americans, hwoever, hold no illusions about their standing in the world: nearly seven in ten think the US is “generally disliked” — the “most self-effacing assessment of global popularity given by any nation in the survey.”
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=94712

[candypreet]

bump ity bump

[emtae]

Indians are nice people

They are into computers

They like talking on the phone

They like making and watching movies

They like music, singing and dancing

They like to eat: their cuisine is AWESOME! I a haven't had my curry fix this week and I'm going banannas!

They are the largest democracy

They think radical mohammadists are a scourge and should be strung up

They are into business and prosperity

They are opening up more and more all the time

Their young people are optimistic and curious and dilligent and want to change things for the better

In their 6000 year history or more they've never attacked anyone even once for territorial gain---very nice peaceful people

They don't trust the Chinese and will probably surpass them soon anyway in terms of growth and economic power!!!

The Indians have a transparent and western legal system that respects intellectual property laws (so to hell with working with China! work with India!)

They make King Fisher...a damn good beer!

......And that Miss India!!!! WOW!!!!!

[candypreet]

Indians are nice people

They are into computers

They like talking on the phone

They like making and watching movies

They like music, singing and dancing

They like to eat: their cuisine is AWESOME! I a haven't had my curry fix this week and I'm going banannas!

They are the largest democracy

They think radical mohammadists are a scourge and should be strung up

They are into business and prosperity

They are opening up more and more all the time

Their young people are optimistic and curious and dilligent and want to change things for the better

In their 6000 year history or more they've never attacked anyone even once for territorial gain---very nice peaceful people

They don't trust the Chinese and will probably surpass them soon anyway in terms of growth and economic power!!!

The Indians have a transparent and western legal system that respects intellectual property laws (so to hell with working with China! work with India!)

They make King Fisher...a damn good beer!

......And that Miss India!!!! WOW!!!!!

yes king fisher is a good beer, and which Miss India are you reffering too

[emtae]

yes king fisher is a good beer, and which Miss India are you reffering too


2004 Tanushree Dutta

I think she's dating Derek Jeter from the NY Yankees.
Any way, she just may well be total perfection in term of looks.

WOW!

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/75/959/1024/Miss%20INDIA%202004.jpg

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dmiss%2520india%26fr%3DFP-tab-web-t%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26ei%3DUTF-8&w=300&h=496&imgurl=www.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fenglish%2Fdoc%2F200 4-06%2F17%2Fxin_270601171137794172568.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fenglish% 2Fdoc%2F2004-06%2F17%2Fcontent_340277.htm&size=81.9kB&name=xin_270601171137794172568.jpg&p=miss+india&type=jpeg&no=7&tt=10,149&ei=UTF-8

[undertaker]

India is a bomb, waiting to explode.
Onto the world of international commerce and trade.
If they can maintain the impetus, they will succeed.

Orson

[emtae]

India is a bomb, waiting to explode.
Onto the world of international commerce and trade.
If they can maintain the impetus, they will succeed.

Orson

I would agree with this. Ever been to Bangalore? I talked with one of the top 3 guys (no names on IH) for a major Indian "tecnhology related company" (again no names) and he said "the only thing that can stop India is India"....he explained to me that he was worried about corruption from inside the country and the political system impeding it's growth

[pixikill]

in australia, there was a recent poll about this. it was about australians getting nastier. 70% said, yes, australia had become nastier, whilst 30% told the pollster to fuck off....

[emtae]

in australia, there was a recent poll about this. it was about australians getting nastier. 70% said, yes, australia had become nastier, whilst 30% told the pollster to fuck off....
cute

[candypreet]

2004 Tanushree Dutta

I think she's dating Derek Jeter from the NY Yankees.
Any way, she just may well be total perfection in term of looks.

WOW!
]

she is a film actor also.

[candypreet]

I would agree with this. Ever been to Bangalore? I talked with one of the top 3 guys (no names on IH) for a major Indian "tecnhology related company" (again no names) and he said "the only thing that can stop India is India"....he explained to me that he was worried about corruption from inside the country and the political system impeding it's growth

Thats true, but I am confident it will change for the better - infact its already improving

[pixikill]

bill clinton is in australia...
Vote now! (http://www.abc.net.au/glasshouse/vote/)

What will be the highlight of Bill Clinton’s Australian trip?
a)A ‘Scrubbers Crawl’ with Warney
b) The gob-stopping size of his pay cheque
c) Hillary’s in America
d) Buying a pair of lederhosen for Dubya

[undertaker]

bill clinton is in australia...
Vote now! (http://www.abc.net.au/glasshouse/vote/)

What will be the highlight of Bill Clinton’s Australian trip?
a)A ‘Scrubbers Crawl’ with Warney
b) The gob-stopping size of his pay cheque
c) Hillary’s in America
d) Buying a pair of lederhosen for Dubya

I did. I chose (a)
Is that correct?

Orson

what the hell is a "Scrubbers Crawl" and who is "Warney?

[pixikill]

I did. I chose (a)
Is that correct?

Orson

what the hell is a "Scrubbers Crawl" and who is "Warney? warney is the best fast bowler in cricket ever, and he just fucked up his marriage by texting scrubbers in england for sex.
hes very handsome, and we all love him....except his wife.

i woulda thought youd have chosen "d":add09:

i voted "b"

[candypreet]

warney is the best fast bowler in cricket ever, and he just fucked up his marriage by texting scrubbers in england for sex.
hes very handsome, and we all love him....except his wife.

i woulda thought youd have chosen "d":add09:

i voted "b"
Hi pixikill - just a Q, when did Shane Warne become a fast bowler. Please I am a big fan of his

[emtae]

bill clinton is in australia...
Vote now! (http://www.abc.net.au/glasshouse/vote/)

What will be the highlight of Bill Clinton’s Australian trip?
a)A ‘Scrubbers Crawl’ with Warney
b) The gob-stopping size of his pay cheque
c) Hillary’s in America
d) Buying a pair of lederhosen for Dubya


Slick Willie's there? Ladies get your lip gloss on!

[Skip]

warney is the best fast bowler in cricket ever, and he just fucked up his marriage by texting scrubbers in england for sex.
hes very handsome, and we all love him....except his wife.

i woulda thought youd have chosen "d":add09:

i voted "b"

Warney is a fast bowler and we all love him?!?!?!?!

Jesus Pix, you Mexicans really are a bit out of touch with the rest of us.

[candypreet]

another thread being derailed

[sidthereal]

in australia, there was a recent poll about this. it was about australians getting nastier. 70% said, yes, australia had become nastier, whilst 30% told the pollster to fuck off....
remind me i need to rep you!!

given out too many in the last 24 hrs

[candypreet]

found this article :


Why the United States needs India

January 02, 2006

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jan/02ks.htm?q=tp&file=.htm

[candypreet]

a bump

[emtae]

They love the US in Taiwan and Japan too.

Only in India is a gross understatement.

[candypreet]

They love the US in Taiwan and Japan too.

Only in India is a gross understatement.
okay , just keep smilin':) :)

[emtae]

okay , just keep smilin':) :)



Candy I gotta question for you. Are you OK if I ask you something?

[candypreet]

Candy I gotta question for you. Are you OK if I ask you something?
go ahead

[emtae]

go ahead

Did you every fly a Soviet Mig?

[candypreet]

Did you every fly a Soviet Mig?
whyd ont you ask sid that?

[aj1]

in australia, there was a recent poll about this. it was about australians getting nastier. 70% said, yes, australia had become nastier, whilst 30% told the pollster to fuck off....


:add09:


On a serious note, Candy, this is an interesting article and my friends and I were having a conversation about India as one of our best allies, just this weekend.

As for problems with corruption, show me a country that does not share that problem to some degree.

[aj1]

found this article :


Why the United States needs India

January 02, 2006

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jan/02ks.htm?q=tp&file=.htm




In the light of the above worldview and perception about India, it is logical that under the leadership of Dr Rice, who has great influence over President George W Bush, the US has decided to help India in its moves to become a world class power in the 21st century. Her worldview envisages India as a crucial factor in the development of Asian balance of power and world balance of power.

In India's industrialisation and development as a world power, energy is a core issue. President Bush and Secretary Rice are of the view that for the energy problems of the 21st century for large energy consumers like the US, China and India there are no simple hydrocarbon solutions. Therefore, it is essential to unshackle India from the bondage of the Nonproliferation Treaty and allow it free access to civil nuclear energy as the world re-evaluates the role of nuclear energy and re-embarks on research on both new generation fission and fusion reactors.
This vision and statecraft implied to translate it into reality, in Dr Rice's words, are ambitious and even revolutionary. However, she asserts that it is not imprudent. As happened on earlier occasions her ideas will take time to win acceptability in view of the heavy overburden of conventional wisdom.


yes, change can be excrutiatingly slow

[candypreet]

:add09:


On a serious note, Candy, this is an interesting article and my friends and I were having a conversation about India as one of our best allies, just this weekend.

As for problems with corruption, show me a country that does not share that problem to some degree.
I agree and yes thanks

[V-Agent]

Indians love America, huh?

I love the way media spin can take the place of travel these days in people's experiences.

Here's the cold, hard truth: Indian business loves America, but the average Joe on the streets couldn't give a damn.

Get used to those words, btw: couldn't give a damn.
They will become more and more common as the international economy slowly becomes independent of nationalism.

[candypreet]

Indians love America, huh?

I love the way media spin can take the place of travel these days in people's experiences.

Here's the cold, hard truth: Indian business loves America, but the average Joe on the streets couldn't give a damn.

Get used to those words, btw: couldn't give a damn.
They will become more and more common as the international economy slowly becomes independent of nationalism.
No id ont think thats true, the average guy on the street likes america, well maybe the muslims are an exception and the commies

[Bitch]

Indians love America, huh?

I love the way media spin can take the place of travel these days in people's experiences.

Here's the cold, hard truth: Indian business loves America, but the average Joe on the streets couldn't give a damn.

Get used to those words, btw: couldn't give a damn.
They will become more and more common as the international economy slowly becomes independent of nationalism.
Ok, I'll bite. ;)

Why should we care if they 'give a damn'? People are people the world over and are usually fairly self-centered. If they dont' have enough food on their table their worry is NOT about the US and the US politics. If they (non-US citizens) are doing well in their work and family life and just living each day, odds are their worries aren't on US politics. They are usually concerned with their more immediate problems and concerns and their own country's politics.

So why would I care if someone in India 'couldn't give a damn' about America?

Do you really think that most Americans feel that we have to be loved and liked by the world over? I don't think we do. I think we are a bit arrogant and don't understand sometimes why people don't. (Unless they actually bother to look at some of our foreign policies and attitudes....). Personally I coudl care less if Susie Chin or Jose Rodriguez like us. If they aren't wanting us all dead, that's good enough for me. Sure I'd like for America to be better respected but even that's not required.

[sidthereal]

No id ont think thats true, the average guy on the street likes america, well maybe the muslims are an exception and the commies
Actually true. Many Indians still believe in the Axis of America,Israel and India.

[candypreet]

Ok, I'll bite. ;)

Why should we care if they 'give a damn'? People are people the world over and are usually fairly self-centered. If they dont' have enough food on their table their worry is NOT about the US and the US politics. If they (non-US citizens) are doing well in their work and family life and just living each day, odds are their worries aren't on US politics. They are usually concerned with their more immediate problems and concerns and their own country's politics.

So why would I care if someone in India 'couldn't give a damn' about America?

Do you really think that most Americans feel that we have to be loved and liked by the world over? I don't think we do. I think we are a bit arrogant and don't understand sometimes why people don't. (Unless they actually bother to look at some of our foreign policies and attitudes....). Personally I coudl care less if Susie Chin or Jose Rodriguez like us. If they aren't wanting us all dead, that's good enough for me. Sure I'd like for America to be better respected but even that's not required.
thats thats the way it should be, but unfortunately humans need to be liked.

[Screw Hollywood]

Ok, I'll bite. ;)

Why should we care if they 'give a damn'? People are people the world over and are usually fairly self-centered. If they dont' have enough food on their table their worry is NOT about the US and the US politics. If they (non-US citizens) are doing well in their work and family life and just living each day, odds are their worries aren't on US politics. They are usually concerned with their more immediate problems and concerns and their own country's politics.

So why would I care if someone in India 'couldn't give a damn' about America?

Do you really think that most Americans feel that we have to be loved and liked by the world over? I don't think we do. I think we are a bit arrogant and don't understand sometimes why people don't. (Unless they actually bother to look at some of our foreign policies and attitudes....). Personally I coudl care less if Susie Chin or Jose Rodriguez like us. If they aren't wanting us all dead, that's good enough for me. Sure I'd like for America to be better respected but even that's not required.Waiting for some common sense like this, had to wait until page four to find it.

[Screw Hollywood]

thats thats the way it should be, but unfortunately humans need to be liked.Perhaps in hollywood....

[V-Agent]

Ok, I'll bite. ;)

Why should we care if they 'give a damn'? People are people the world over and are usually fairly self-centered. If they dont' have enough food on their table their worry is NOT about the US and the US politics. If they (non-US citizens) are doing well in their work and family life and just living each day, odds are their worries aren't on US politics. They are usually concerned with their more immediate problems and concerns and their own country's politics.

So why would I care if someone in India 'couldn't give a damn' about America?

Do you really think that most Americans feel that we have to be loved and liked by the world over? I don't think we do. I think we are a bit arrogant and don't understand sometimes why people don't. (Unless they actually bother to look at some of our foreign policies and attitudes....). Personally I coudl care less if Susie Chin or Jose Rodriguez like us. If they aren't wanting us all dead, that's good enough for me. Sure I'd like for America to be better respected but even that's not required.

But that's just it: why care one way or another?
The point is, that here we have an article, that basically states Indians love the US without reservation.
That in essence was it's intent.

So to answer your question: yes, for the most part Americans think they ought to be adored as the only light of reason upon this planet to the extent that they surround themselves with data that states as much to the exclusion of everything else.
From an outside perspective, it borders on obsession.

The truth is, on a given moment in Mumbai, Delhi, etc, people are much too busy taking care of their own lives than to adulate the might of American magnificence.
In fact, my own experience has been that for the most part, Indians consider America in the light you would a naughty school child: full of mischief and very immature.

[Bitch]

But that's just it: why care one way or another?
The point is, that here we have an article, that basically states Indians love the US without reservation.
That in essence was it's intent.

So to answer your question: yes, for the most part Americans care the way they are viewed to the extent that they surround themselves with data that states as much to the exclusion of everything else.
From an outside perspective, it borders on obsession.

The truth is, on a given moment in Mumbai, Delhi, etc, people are much too busy taking care of their own lives than to adulate the might of American capitalism.
In fact, my own experience has been that for the most part, Indians consider America in the light you would a naughty school child: full of mischief and very immature.
Disagree. I think that is hype that has been played up by the media. I think the average american probably feels closer to what I posted than feeling some need for unrestrained adulation!

[Bitch]

Waiting for some common sense like this, had to wait until page four to find it.
I DO have my moments ;)

[Alli]

So to answer your question: yes, for the most part Americans think they ought to be adored as the only light of reason upon this planet to the extent that they surround themselves with data that states as much to the exclusion of everything else.
From an outside perspective, it borders on obsession.

May I ask what you are basing this upon?

[Screw Hollywood]

For all the so-called hatred in the world for this country, it is still the only place in the world people die trying to get to.

[Bitch]

For all the so-called hatred in the world for this country, it is still the only place in the world people die trying to get to.
Not true. Spain as just one example.

[V-Agent]

May I ask what you are basing this upon?

Personal experience for one, it's global media output for another.

Before you jump on the obvious, the key words are for the most part - ie: not everyone.

[Alli]

Personal experience for one, it's global media output for another.

Before you jump on the obvious, the key words are for the most part - ie: not everyone.
Doesn't "most part" indicate a majority? i.e; Dinner was good, for the most part, but the pasta was horrible.

[Screw Hollywood]

Not true. Spain as just one example.Thought of that just after I posted. That's more for expedience than anything else, though.

[V-Agent]

For all the so-called hatred in the world for this country, it is still the only place in the world people die trying to get to.

And here you have a perfect example of the obsession I was talking about earlier.

We are now to believe that America is the ONLY place people attempt to get to through much danger to themselves.

I bet that's news to practically every nation on earth, in fact I'll have to mention that to my government the next time they're off spending millions to deter boat people arriving on our shores.

[candypreet]

For all the so-called hatred in the world for this country, it is still the only place in the world people die trying to get to.
I know a lot of people prefer australia to USA

[Bitch]

Thought of that just after I posted. That's more for expedience than anything else, though.
Don't agree. There are other great places in this world to live in. Certainly places that are better than the third world countries that these folks are fleeing from.

America is a wonderful place to live IMO but it's not the only good place.

[V-Agent]

Doesn't "most part" indicate a majority? i.e; Dinner was good, for the most part, but the pasta was horrible.

That is what I said, for the most part, ie: a majority.

A majority does not include everyone.

[Bitch]

That is what I said, for the most part, ie: a majority.

A majority does not include everyone.
I believe what Alli is indicating though is that she doesn't believe that a majority of Americans feel that way. I'd have to agree.

[Alli]

And here you have a perfect example of the obsession I was talking about earlier.

We are now to believe that America is the ONLY place people attempt to get to through much danger to themselves.

I bet that's news to practically every nation on earth, in fact I'll have to mention that to my government the next time they're off spending millions to deter boat people arriving on our shores.
I don't see it as obsession, I see it as not knoweldgable.

[V-Agent]

I believe what Alli is indicating though is that she doesn't believe that a majority of Americans feel that way. I'd have to agree.

I hope you two are right.

I really do.

[slaman]

India has the third largest Muslim population in the world.

[sidthereal]

India has the third largest Muslim population in the world.
Second.

[zerocool2006]

you forgot one thing many indians speak english...







Indians are nice people

They are into computers

They like talking on the phone

They like making and watching movies

They like music, singing and dancing

They like to eat: their cuisine is AWESOME! I a haven't had my curry fix this week and I'm going banannas!

They are the largest democracy

They think radical mohammadists are a scourge and should be strung up

They are into business and prosperity

They are opening up more and more all the time

Their young people are optimistic and curious and dilligent and want to change things for the better

In their 6000 year history or more they've never attacked anyone even once for territorial gain---very nice peaceful people

They don't trust the Chinese and will probably surpass them soon anyway in terms of growth and economic power!!!

The Indians have a transparent and western legal system that respects intellectual property laws (so to hell with working with China! work with India!)

They make King Fisher...a damn good beer!

......And that Miss India!!!! WOW!!!!!

[candypreet]

you forgot one thing many indians speak english...







Indians are nice people

They are into computers

They like talking on the phone

They like making and watching movies

They like music, singing and dancing

They like to eat: their cuisine is AWESOME! I a haven't had my curry fix this week and I'm going banannas!

They are the largest democracy

They think radical mohammadists are a scourge and should be strung up

They are into business and prosperity

They are opening up more and more all the time

Their young people are optimistic and curious and dilligent and want to change things for the better

In their 6000 year history or more they've never attacked anyone even once for territorial gain---very nice peaceful people

They don't trust the Chinese and will probably surpass them soon anyway in terms of growth and economic power!!!

The Indians have a transparent and western legal system that respects intellectual property laws (so to hell with working with China! work with India!)

They make King Fisher...a damn good beer!

......And that Miss India!!!! WOW!!!!!



:) :) :)

[candypreet]

ahappy new tyear

[candypreet]

Philip Giraldi
Mon Aug 6, 1:54 PM ET



The inability of presidential aspirants to deal with reality is sometimes astonishing. Concerning Pakistan and its beleaguered President Pervez Musharraf, only one thing is true from the US national interest perspective: Musharraf is Washington's best hope for containing and eventually defeating the one terrorist group that actually threatens the United States. That group is Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida, which has found shelter in the trackless tribal region of Waziristan along the Pakistani-Afghan border. White House propaganda notwithstanding, no other group has the ability, resources, or the stated intention to attack the United States. One does not have to approve of Musharraf's brand of soft military dictatorship or the delicate political balancing act that he must engage in to stay in power to understand that he is essential to American efforts to control terrorism in central Asia. So why don't Congress and the gaggle of presidential candidates get it?


Congressman Tom Tancredo's call last week to threaten to punish all Muslims by nuking Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia to deter a terrorist attack directed against the US should be taken as a good example of the current level of the debate on security policy. The leading Republican candidates had already established an incredibly low benchmark in the foreign policy sweepstakes by their stated willingness to use nuclear weapons against Iran. They have buttressed their resolve to kill still more young Americans in a new effort to remake the Middle East through the appointment of a number of neoconservatives as their foreign policy advisers, including Norman Podhoretz, who has called for World War IV against all "Islamofascists" everywhere. Other leading neocons advising Republicans include Elizabeth Cheney, Robert Kagan, Dan Senor, and Jim Woolsey.

This past week it was the turn of the Democrats to demonstrate again their unfitness for high office. The leading Democrats are unflinching in their support of a military option against Iran and are as willing as any Republican to define Israel's right to self defense as a carte blanche to attack any and all of its neighbors. Now they too are lining up to get tough with Pakistan. Democrats are invariably obsessed with demonstrating how tough they can be. Their latest performances come in the wake of the July 17th National Intelligence Estimate that reported that al-Qaida had largely reconstituted itself in the Pakistani tribal area of Waziristan. Senator Barack Obama jumped on the scrum last Wednesday when he make clear that a President Obama would use US troops to attack Pakistan and would cut off all aid to Islamabad if terrorist operations are not shut down and foreign fighters expelled. As he put it, " ... if President Musharraf won't act, we will." The use of the royal "we" is significant, meaning, unfortunately, that Obama is beginning to believe his own hype.

Obama's comments came one week after rival Senator Hillary Clinton tried to portray him as naïve and soft on terrorism for his stated willingness to talk to international bad guys like Presidents Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, Fidel Castro of Cuba, and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. Obama's willingness to talk to adversaries would appear to be reasonable to most foreign policy experts, but it was quickly described as a vulnerability when seen through the distorting prism of American politics.

Obama's new, tougher stance to teach the treacherous Pakis a lesson is already being used by the Pakistani media to flail Musharraf for his ties to the United States. Obama might be surprised to learn that no one particularly wants to be invaded by the world's sole remaining superpower, particularly as Iraq has proven to be such a success. Obama also seems unaware that his posturing for political gain could have real foreign policy consequences. His apparent ignorance of the situation on the ground in Pakistan is surprising in a candidate who is generally very well briefed by his staff, but he surely understands that his comments amount to bravado, pure and simple. An American invasion of Pakistan would not likely succeed in locating and eliminating al-Qaida and would instead bring about political chaos spilling over into all of central Asia. Even uber-hawk Senator John McCain conceded that he would have to "think it through" before attacking Pakistan. Afghanistan and Pakistan dissolving into anarchy would make the mean streets of Baghdad look positively benign.

Not to be outdone by Obama's coloratura performance, Senator Hillary Clinton moved even further to the right when she announced on Thursday that she would not rule out the use of nuclear weapons on the terrorists hiding in Pakistan. It is not clear where the "who is tougher" competition will go from here as it would seem that Hillary has seized all the high ground. That such an attack would inevitably kill many thousands of non-terrorists apparently is not relevant. It would also inter alia be an act of war against a country of 170 million that already doesn't like the US very much and that is itself armed with nuclear weapons. For the square-jawed and resolute Hillary, attacking another sovereign nation would apparently be an act without consequences. Unfortunately, the Pakistanis are aware of what she is saying and are paying attention to her, further undermining Musharraf and reducing the number of Pakistanis who are willing to support a US-led counterterrorism policy in Asia. If the Democrats continue to beat on Islamabad there might not be any friendly natives left in Pakistan by inauguration time in January 2009.

And it is not just the presidential candidates. On July 27th, Congress demonstrated that collectively speaking and in true bipartisan fashion it is no better informed than either Obama or Clinton. Legislation sent to the White House mandates that Pakistan take steps to expel the Taliban and al-Qaida from its territory or face the consequences, which would be a cut off in US military and economic assistance. Without such aid, developing world Pakistan would be unable to do anything at all against the terrorist groups and it would drop out of the fight. Congress and the presidential candidates are apparently unaware that since 9/11 Pakistan's security forces have killed or captured more al-Qaida than all of the other intelligence services in the rest of the world combined. Without Pakistan, there would not be any war on terror.

One might argue that pandering for votes and political contributions is as American as apple pie, but every once in a while it would be refreshing to hear a candidate stake out a position that is genuinely supportive of the national interest. Only Kucinich, Gravel, and Ron Paul are regularly talking sense and all three of them have been marginalized by the power brokers in their own parties. Attacking Iran and Pakistan either together or separately in a bid to end regional instability and international terrorism is a delusion. Even talking about possibly carrying out such attacks is foolish as it creates unhelpful perceptions about American misuse of its power and unleashes forces that cannot be controlled. Being tough to the point of weakening allies and unnecessarily making new enemies might please the Armageddonists who are eager to end the world so they can be raptured up to heaven or the neoconservatives who want to fight all Muslims all the time, but it is hardly serves the interests of most Americans