Jon's Grand Experiment-Success or Failure?

[Synner]

I didn't really want to start a new thread about this, but I couldn't find an existing thread to fit it into.

Anyway, given the recent events surrounding Rod, and the oft cited "vision" that Jon had that has been tossed in the face of everyone that had something negative to say about how the incident was handled, I wanted to comment on the topic.

I can only speak from personal experience, for what it's worth. Jon envisioned a place where people with all different viewpoints could discuss world issues in an attempt to understand the motivations behind our actions. A place where discussion was king, even if heated at times.

When I first came here, I was a die-hard righty. Not so much an extremist. More like a man set in his political beliefs. Over the course of almost 4 years, I've learned that I wasn't so set in my ways. I've become something of a leftist, due purely to discussions and debates I've engaged in on this very board. The material presented here has, at times, forced me to dig deeper into subject matter I thought I knew very well. I am a changed man.

When one takes a macroscopic look at the state of IH today, it's easy to conclude that Jon's vision has not come to fruition. Not much has changed over the years this board has been up and running. Bag Sniper and Rod still chuckle and drool over the prospect of nuking the entire non-English speaking world. People like BlackFlag still get a woody posting videos of American soldiers being beheaded. And some people couldn't be persuaded to give a shit either way even if you handed them the keys to a new Beamer in exchange for an intelligent post.

The problem with Jon's vision is that you can't change the world in one fell swoop unless you're willing to destroy it. In order make the world a better place, you must proceed brick by brick. Person by person. It's literally impossible to bring around someone like Rod. That's because the Rods and BlackFlags out there have absolutely no interest understanding world events. They just want to dictate them. It's a sour part of humanism that's in all of us to one degree or another.

It bothers me that Jon died believing his vision was a waste. What I don't believe he understood was that it isn't that the vision failed. It's that the people he most wanted to change, can't be changed. But many of us, myself included, have changed. Some dramatically, some more subtely. That is the success of his vision. He touched, and changed, the people he was capable of touching. With that in mind, his vision has been, and continues to be a resounding success. It may not be all that he wanted it to be. But it's FAR more then most, if not all, thought it ever truely could be.

So what's the point, you ask? It's that people like Rod and BlackFlag serve a purpose in his vision. In my case, Rod reminds me of an American I don't ever want to be. In fact, I would even hesitate to call such a person an American. Early on I began to think to myself..."Is Rod's position the logical conclusion of my own beliefs?" I knew it wasn't, so I set off to find the real conclusions of my world view, and why it was that I was thinking the way I was. In the process, I reinvented myself. I'm not perfect by any means. Far from it. But I'm certainly more comfortable that I'm on the right path, and the critical step of Understanding (once overlooked) has been passed. And I don't think I'm the only one that's been transformed because of this board, but you can speak for yourselves. In a twisted way, I owe the extremists a "thanks", sort of, anyway. So thanks Rod, and thanks BlackFlag. Thank you for showing me the idiocy of single-minded hatred. And thank you, Jon, for giving us the venue that allowed it to happen.

[Lotimer]

It's that people like Rod and BlackFlag serve a purpose in his vision. In my case, Rod reminds me of an American I don't ever want to be. In fact, I would even hesitate to call such a person an American.

Hear, hear.

I also learn new things every day by reading this board. I think it's a great place to exchange ideas and opinions. This board has a diversity that other political boards lack.

[Ono]

Synner: I'm glad you found some positive reform in yourself due to this site. I have too, but I also am not pleased with some of the feelings I now have after witnessing all that is IH commentary. Not that it's the sites fault, rather our own. I really had no idea of the depth of hate, violence, nastiness, that just the Americans have demonstrated. I'm doubly surprised at the behavior of so many foreigners. Then comes along a wonderful person and it seems to center again, if only for a moment.

I don't know what else to say, really. It's clear that most of us have been touched in one way or another by Jon's endeavor. I hope he wasn't too disappointed.

[Catwoman]

we all began this long journery at different points. Jon allowed us this luxury.
We started debating and learning from others. I had little to offer and spent months learning from the likes of Wannabe. I needed to know what the issues where before I could even jump in. The Jihadi's provided counterpoint. More thought and discussion, although sometime at fevered pitch. Enter Casey with her invaluable pages. She provided a whole new insight straight from the source, and nothing like mainstream media was reporting.

Then enter the added layers of political, economic, and philosophical discussions. This place has been a resounding success in my opinion. A true legacy to Jon's name.


PS. I think BF is a woefully misunderstood poster and I appreciate his links.
I view them as information and nothing else. If he wishes me harm, which I doubt, I still thank him for his links.

[NoFate]

we all began this long journery at different points. Jon allowed us this luxury.
We started debating and learning from others. I had little to offer and spent months learning from the likes of Wannabe. I needed to know what the issues where before I could even jump in. The Jihadi's provided counterpoint. More thought and discussion, although sometime at fevered pitch. Enter Casey with her invaluable pages. She provided a whole new insight straight from the source, and nothing like mainstream media was reporting.

Then enter the added layers of political, economic, and philosophical discussions. This place has been a resounding success in my opinion. A true legacy to Jon's name.


PS. I think BF is a woefully misunderstood poster and I appreciate his links.
I view them as information and nothing else. If he wishes me harm, which I doubt, I still thank him for his links.

I have to agree. I've learned a lot here...been exposed to a lot that I would not have otherwise experienced. Also agree that Black Flag's posts are information, and it is information that is not easily accessible by the average American. Even if I don't like the message, I appreciate the education. I want to know the truth about the world, and not have it candy coated.

[Bman]

Jon's contribution to the political dialogue has been ENORMOUS.. this site was a pioneer in "interactive blogging"... When Jon started this site there were few, if any, that were doing what happens here..

the site has been an overwhelming success in that regard.. has it brought people closer together??

I don't know. what it HAS done is multiply exponentially the amount of information available, particularly about current events..

If that information brings people closer together, or perhaps drives them further apart.. I think that's more a function of the information itself, rather than the format

More information is a good thing.. its kind of a "free market" of ideas.. successful ideas take root in others and grow.. the lunatic fringe has its say as well, but if their ideas lack "value", they quickly fall by the wayside and die...

[FiremanDave6024]

Excellent post, Synner.


A place where discussion was king, even if heated at times.

Exactly. You and I have had at least one.


The problem with Jon's vision is that you can't change the world in one fell swoop unless you're willing to destroy it. In order make the world a better place, you must proceed brick by brick. Person by person. It's literally impossible to bring around someone like Rod. That's because the Rods and BlackFlags out there have absolutely no interest understanding world events. They just want to dictate them. It's a sour part of humanism that's in all of us to one degree or another.

You're absolutely right. And it's unfortunate. I'd honestly like to believe that I found this board a punk-assed kid, and grew up watching discussions and arguments, and jumping in head first sometimes.


It bothers me that Jon died believing his vision was a waste.

I wish that hadn't happened. I didn't know Jon except by reputation and a few posts, but he dedicated a lot of time and energy to this site, and I wish that his dream had been better realized, if only in his mind.

Overall, I would say it has been a rousing success, with the exception of a few people. And you can't change everyone everytime, no matter how hard you try.

Jon, wherever you are, you did good.

[Raven]

Great post, Synner. But then I've never seen you post one that wasn't. I too was 'right-wing' in my thinking when I began to lurk here in late 02. By the time the war had started I was in R&R pounding my fists on the table for a bloodletting; and not only that, but many other issues that I thought I knew good and well of have been changed as well. There are subjects I never knew that existed until I began reading this forum. And although I don't contribute anything of worth here in terms of an informed or educated opinion...I have learned a great deal. People like you, Ono, DotScott, Nero, Philo and numerous others, are one of the greastest gatherings of brilliant people I've ever (or will ever for that matter) have the honor of standing in the shadows of.
Your a believer in the theory of evolution...but you've somehow confused that process here; the evolution of thinking, of years, decades, even centuries of conditioning...can not be changed in the few years that this forum has existed. But change is something that is inevidble, perhaps the changes here, even if it's only a few who have been changed, is a sure sign of Jon's forum being a success.
Jon played daddy as long as he could for everyone here....maybe now the job is on those he left behind. And maybe we owe him that at the least....but I think he wanted us to know that we owed it to ourselves as well.

[Lotimer]

PS. I think BF is a woefully misunderstood poster and I appreciate his links.
I view them as information and nothing else. If he wishes me harm, which I doubt, I still thank him for his links.


I agree.

[Spelling Nazi]

IH has been an enlightening experience for me. It’s also interesting that you started this thread since you, Synner, are personally responsible for at least 15% of that enlightenment. But this is off-topic and no one needs to hear it…

There is something magical about arguing on the Internet. These theological and political discussions are far deeper than the shallow, surface level discussions I generate in real life. Probably a combination of the dehumanism of words on a screen, the lack of fear of offending the other parties, the ability to reread and the ability to fact check and link all contributes to the enhanced debates. It only holds when the engaged parties are willing to converse with intelligent posts, but contrary to popular belief this happens quite often.

Now enter the brilliant part of Jon’s implementation. He linked polar opposite sites to the same place and brought people of multiple backgrounds here. Ta-da, a fascinating place is born. As I mentioned in another thread, I liked seeing Andalus Knight post just to see a completely different (if insane) viewpoint.

Although I missed my chance to see it, Rod’s recent contribution to “America’s Funniest Home Videos” is just an extension of viewing completely different (if insane) viewpoints. I’m not defending thumbing one’s nose at the admins. I’m just talking about trying to understand Rod and extremists. And that leads to my one disagreement with your otherwise excellent post.


In my case, Rod reminds me of an American I don't ever want to be. In fact, I would even hesitate to call such a person an American.
He’s clearly American, and that’s the lesson. We’re all human regardless of nationality, and prone to similar feelings. An Arab who burns an American flag is trying to incite hate in the identical manner to Rod pissing on a Qu’ran. They’re identical. They just can’t see that. Yet thanks to Jon’s vision, it becomes apparent to the rest of us.

[Pghredneck]

The success of Jon’s experiment can only be measured by that impact that it had on the thinking of the collection of individuals who visited his site.. Some folks came here and never listened to what anyone else of a differing opinion had to say. It might be concluded that IH had a negative impact on them but I disagree with that opinion because many of those folks only sought a validation of their pre-conceived ideas. Others, while also having strongly held opinions, occasionally took pause and digested what was written here. Their thoughts were influenced. A third group came here with open minds and seeking to better understand what others thought. They got what they wanted. While the second and third groups benefited from Jon’s experiment, the first one was more interested in seeking birds of feather. When it all is summed up, I can draw no other conclusion than that Jon’s experiment was successful. It might not have ended up resulting in what he had hoped for but IH has had a positive impact on many…

[God]

I, much like you Synner, have gone on the a nearly identical political journey from hard-right at the beginning to centered, to almost purely leftist.

And I don't feel ashamed about it, not one bit. People here will call me "asshole" when they look at one or two isolated posts from me, and misinterpret how I approach things. I've been labeld the board's loudmouth, barking at the meek, and treating people wiht disrespect. You'll notice that the people who label me as such are the ones who tend not to answer the difficult question that befall them, or continue to lie to themselves to tow teh party line, or the agenda.

Am I an asshole? Some days, yes. Do I "get off" on bothering people? This is most assuredly not the case. What I've offered here has been and will always be, honesty. This place has changed me. I got tired of following leaders who made me wince when I heard their rhetoric. No one person in particular here has been the "big" influence, but just everyone as a whole. I've learned to question what I was sure I was correct about. I've also decided that some people who are set in their ways NEED to be challenged to think differently. And I've observed that quite a few people who've come here over the years were seeking just that, a reason to think differently.

Jon's board has been a rousing success, IMHO. His vision was flawed only in that he might have believed that people are inherently good, and will seek change. Not everyone does. Some are afraid to. Some are too lazy to change. Some don't even know they need a new perspective. But those that do, find this place, and it's lessons absolutely fascinating. I know I do.

[Lotimer]

This is most assuredly not the case. What I've offered here has been and will always be, honesty.


Honestly is an admirable quality. You can certainly be brutally honest at times, but I suppose that's not necessarily a bad thing. Heh.

[God]

Honestly is an admirable quality. You can certainly be brutally honest at times, but I suppose that's not necessarily a bad thing. Heh.

And I rarely ever do so just for spite or "jollies".

It's like I said earlier today - the people I ride the hardest are the ones who I know from reading their posts that they should "know better".

I learned to think differently by getting bitchslapped verbally by those who knew I was misinformed. They didn't change me by holding my hand and telling me it was going to be ok that I didn't have a clue on subject "x".

[Occupant]

OK. So, I'm hearing "success?"

I'm not going to add to this. You've all made some very good points.

I'll just say, "yeah, what they said."

[Buffy]

I came to IH as part of an organized data mining effort. We were tipped off to IH by a family member of mine who accurately predicted his time here was coming to an end.

IH is the first website that we have worked or existed at that became appealling enough to stick around for a while and just get to know people. In that, IH is unique. I admit to a certain snobby glee in torturing the former White Trash members of the board, but there are also many...too many to name, that I have sincerely grown to care about and look forward to posting with.

In that, I think Jon created something special. Something different that stands out. Though I don't think my time here will be much longer, it has been a hell of an experience. Jon must have been a hell of a man to create something that allowed so much free expression. My only regret is not knowing him and not seeing him post more.

[God]

I came to IH as part of an organized data mining effort. We were tipped off to IH by a family member of mine who accurately predicted his time here was coming to an end.

You're a spook?

[Occupant]

You're a spook?Racist!! :mad:



:D

[Buffy]

You're a spook?
Hell no. There are those who get paid and those who do it for satisfaction of doing something patriotic.

[knightroar]

when I first came here, I wanted to learn, but I was pretty rigid in my Democratic Party mindset and the evils of everything Republican. I had very little knowledge of Islam, other than a few childhood Arab friends. I was very set in my ways on Politics and very lacking in knowledge of what triggered 9/11. I wanted to learn from those that knew more than me, and I wanted to also pass on what I knew.

Along the way, the learning process took an unexpected turn. My view of the Democratic Party was shattered, and now pretty much resides in the same sinking boat as my view of the Republican Party.

I learned about Islam from some unexpected sources, stupid_guy being the first, then moving on to tigger, set-it-straight and a host of others. I've learned that we come from very different mind sets and beliefs, but in many ways we have the same goals, with vastly different methods of achieving them.

I've learned so much from Jon, Elli, Ono, Synner, Casey and many others to balance my own beliefs with the real world and not close my mind to different ideas. I've learned from Dan(God) not to take myself so seriously and to quit spewing long enough to see some of the other side.

In the end, I believe I grew and became a better, more balanced person from my time spent here. My fondness, respect, an admiration of Jon grew and was never diminished. He was a giant and a fragile human being rolled into one. I miss his wit and his intelligence and his passion every day. He did a great job for many of us.

[NoFate]

Though I don't think my time here will be much longer,
Where are you going!?! :mad:

[Buffy]

Where are you going!?! :mad:
Definitely NOT to IH2...I dunno. I just feel like IH is winding down. Maybe it's just me.

[Pispas]

I said it before; in one word: stunning success on a variety of levels.

And success is *never* rated in terms of a 100% profit margin.

The ''profit margin'' here has been FAR greater than anything I've ever seen in business. You might want to keep in mind that the most obnoxious voices usually are the loudest ones, therefore stand out most, and may distort the picture slightly.

Look deeper and you see the things you, Synner, yourself described; changes in (previously deeply entrenched) political positions - I can think of a few more - learning, awareness, acceptance, tolerance, respect and realizing that behind every political opinion or religious belief, there is a human person first, with a ''background'' which had led to that belief or conviction.

The actual essence, the real quality which comes to the surface far outweighs the verbal diatribe, gossip and slug matches. These are of no significance.

I thought I knew it all when I came here. I may have known a couple of things, but I've never actually been up close with people who had different political opinions and were able to articulate them well. Hell, I din't even know what my own standing was (I still don't, but that's beside the point).

IH - and the people which make it *all of them* - had had a profound effect on me.

Verdict: total success

Jon: you're a genius and you've left a legacy which has yet to be matched by anyone!

[NoFate]

Definitely NOT to IH2...I dunno. I just feel like IH is winding down. Maybe it's just me.
leaving won't help it any :love_02:

[Pispas]

Definitely NOT to IH2...I dunno. I just feel like IH is winding down. Maybe it's just me.Ah don't worry; the next playa to slaya is just around the corna. ;)

[Buffy]

Ah don't worry; the next playa to slaya is just around the corna. ;)
Yeah but I am tamed ;)

"People can have many different kinds of pleasure. The real one is that for which they will forsake the others.”
Marcel Proust

[Pispas]

Yeah but I am tamed ;)

"People can have many different kinds of pleasure. The real one is that for which they will forsake the others.”
Marcel Proust:add40: http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/Kwandee/terrific.gif

[Sorry Synner ---- > rerail]

[Cali/Yank]

Well, I wish I was a typer...but alas, I just don't have it in me to type out all the groundbreaking achievements that have taken place here. (run on sentence?):)

First, a class of abysynth will always be in my home for toasting special friends.( Never heard of it until jon brought it up. And I thought I've tried everything.)

Second, nowhere (as most have said) has there been a place more diverse than here. I learned to search, and examine, and try and portray my view to those that don't agree with me, with tact, sometimes.

Third, where in the world could you go and read something by Veritas and then run to a thesauras to see what the hell he was saying?

too many ppl to even start to discribe..Droog did that fine.

And I think that is why this place is a success because for those of us who are grammalcally handicapped and not spell worthy with our thoughts someone out there latched on the idea and further expanded the meaning with the right words...make any sense?

Thank you, I hope you enjoyed the show. drive home carefully and Goodnight.
Miss you jon.......

[Pispas]

Well, I wish I was a typer...but alas, I just don't have it in me to type out all the groundbreaking achievements that have taken place here. (run on sentence?):)

First, a class of abysynth will always be in my home for toasting special friends.( Never heard of it until jon brought it up. And I thought I've tried everything.)

Second, nowhere (as most have said) has there been a place more diverse than here. I learned to search, and examine, and try and portray my view to those that don't agree with me, with tact, sometimes.

Third, where in the world could you go and read something by Veritas and then run to a thesauras to see what the hell he was saying?

too many ppl to even start to discribe..Droog did that fine.

And I think that is why this place is a success because for those of us who are grammalcally handicapped and not spell worthy with our thoughts someone out there latched on the idea and further expanded the meaning with the right words...make any sense?

Thank you, I hope you enjoyed the show. drive home carefully and Goodnight.
Miss you jon.......You were doing just fine (until you ran into abysynth). :add09:

[usn_72]

It bothers me that Jon died believing his vision was a waste.
Synner you always make good sense and I usually always agree with your posts....But oh contrair with Jon believing his vision was a waste....I have no proof to offer either way....But I just cant see Jon thinking it was a waste! I think if Jon felt at any time it was a waste he would have just killed it in its tracks and tried something else!

[Ernie]

IH is not a failure, at least not in my humble opinion. Diversity is key, opposition fuels debate and discussion. How can one be enlightened without a variety of people expressing their beliefs, convictions, and their knowledge? After all, this site attempts to accomplish a great many things, being that there are so many sections of the board for different topics of discussion. This is specifically a discussion board about anything and everything. Sure, there are people here that rattle the cage and stir the shit pot. Sure, there are intelligent people as well. And there are even plenty of clowns. IH is entertainment. IH is a source of current events and news. IH is many things. What makes things difficult is that we sometimes take things too personally at IH. Example:

"Well, fuck. Corny fucking removed my post, pic, link, thread. That motherfucker is such an asshole".

Well folks...ever try moderating a site like this? About such topics that people take to heart, and maybe, too seriously?

Also, have you ever tried working with V-Bulletin boards?

Enough said. In closing, IH is here, and it is still generating interest, and still is stirring people's minds. I think it is a work in progress. How can something be considered as a failure if it is not finished?

[Synner]

Synner you always make good sense and I usually always agree with your posts....But oh contrair with Jon believing his vision was a waste....I have no proof to offer either way....But I just cant see Jon thinking it was a waste! I think if Jon felt at any time it was a waste he would have just killed it in its tracks and tried something else!I don't know for sure what he thought. I'm just going by his posts over his last couple of months. It's possible his condition played into to some of those posts, but I sure got the impression he believed he had failed.

[God]

I don't know for sure what he thought. I'm just going by his posts over his last couple of months. It's possible his condition played into to some of those posts, but I sure got the impression he believed he had failed.

I think maybe you got your signals crossed on that one.

The only thing about this board that failed was that retarded social engineering experiment cooked up by alastor.

[Virginia]

I don't know for sure what he thought. I'm just going by his posts over his last couple of months. It's possible his condition played into to some of those posts, but I sure got the impression he believed he had failed.
I think there are moments we each feel overwhelmed by the ugly souls of some individuals and the evil in life. That's when I know it's time to step back and adjust my focus. I know Jon felt overwhelmed at times but I also know that he saw the good posters of IH. One small light can dispel a whole room of darkness.

Remember, a wise friend, from IH, once told me not to let the bad ones get me down because then they win. :)

All in all...no, I don't think Jon's "experiment" was a failure. On various levels it was and is successful.

[Casey]

All I can say is, I am very proud of the efforts here regarding what has happened recently, which goes on to say that there ARE successes.

The most recent discussions brought out passion and honesty among other things, not that we like those all the time, but being complacent and content will not move us forward.

And, I am thrilled that they were discussions. In the heat of it all, the pictures went away, that alone impressed me to no end.

[Hammy]

It absolutely and without question is a success and as with all successful experiments, it is ongoing.

Jon is not here, but his creature, IH, continues, having become largely self sustaining. If, at the end of my days, I have done or created something that will live on with the purpose for which it was intended, then it will have been a good ride.


Imagine a hamster avatar
<-------over there

I seem to have outgrown the size limit...

[DavesGirl]

I don't know exactly how this place could be considered a failure, unless the strict goal of the board when created was to gather information about reasons behind 9-11. Has that not happened? Do we not all see the reasons? The interolance of humanity? Admit it, we're all intolerant of something.

If 9-11 discussions have slowed, or all together ceased, its likely because we've gotten most of the answers we were seeking. Whether directly or indirectly.

Yes, there is a lot of hate around here. Isn't there everywhere? I believe what's here is truly representative of whats out in the real world.

We don't need black flags or rods to remind us of extremism. We all have our extremes, somewhere. I think Rod did something very nasty. But equal to BF's posting of beheadings. Something extremely offensive to someone. Some would call videos of eating steak or deer offensive too. I don't much care for censorship, but I understand that this site isn't ours at all. Some of think because we frequent this board and use it most often, its ours. Its not. Its C-baby's now. And she allows admins free reign, probably based on Jon's feelings about his chosen admins. They probably have a good idea of what Jon would allow or not allow.

So the bottom line is...who cares? Really? So Rod isn't allowed to post his video of Quarn pissing. I might feel some false sense of justice when he's banned. But in reality, it matters not. His banning changes nothing in the world around me. This is a message board. That's it. Do I care if you take a picture of Jesus off your wall in your home, just because I'm a guest? No. I say, "huh...don't believe in Jesus?" (in my head) and go on my merry way. It has no effect on me, I don't care what's posted here. If I find it interesting, I read it. If I don't...I won't.

There can be no failure in this.

I've enjoyed my time here. I've learned a lot. Learned many a time that I *thought* I knew what I was talking about, but was quickly corrected. I was never a "news junkie" or a current events follower, accept for whatever came on the news. My, oh my, have I learned that I have opinions on EVERYTHING! Thanks to Jon for the board to learn this on! And thanks to my hubby for bringing me here. Its like an addiction. Rods and BFs make the drama. I hate the personal dramas of PMs and personal lives. At least Rods and BFs dramatic doesn't draw on he said, she said stupid shit, he posted my PM, she fucked this guy or that guy. That's not what I'm here to read, and not what keeps me coming back.

[guest_]

.

We don't need black flags or rods to remind us of extremism. We all have our extremes, somewhere. I think Rod did something very nasty. But equal to BF's posting of beheadings. Something extremely offensive to someone. Some would call videos of eating steak or deer offensive too. I don't much care for censorship, but I understand that this site isn't ours at all. Some of think because we frequent this board and use it most often, its ours. Its not. Its C-baby's now. And she allows admins free reign, probably based on Jon's feelings about his chosen admins. They probably have a good idea of what Jon would allow or not allow.

So the bottom line is...who cares? Really? So Rod isn't allowed to post his video of Quarn pissing. I might feel some false sense of justice when he's banned. But in reality, it matters not. His banning changes nothing in the world around me. This is a message board. That's it. Do I care if you take a picture of Jesus off your wall in your home, just because I'm a guest? No. I say, "huh...don't believe in Jesus?" (in my head) and go on my merry way. It has no effect on me, I don't care what's posted here. If I find it interesting, I read it. If I don't...I won't.

There can be no failure in this.

I've enjoyed my time here. I've learned a lot. Learned many a time that I *thought* I knew what I was talking about, but was quickly corrected. I was never a "news junkie" or a current events follower, accept for whatever came on the news. My, oh my, have I learned that I have opinions on EVERYTHING! Thanks to Jon for the board to learn this on! And thanks to my hubby for bringing me here. Its like an addiction. Rods and BFs make the drama. I hate the personal dramas of PMs and personal lives. At least Rods and BFs dramatic doesn't draw on he said, she said stupid shit, he posted my PM, she fucked this guy or that guy. That's not what I'm here to read, and not what keeps me coming back.

:happy_01:

[Pispas]

I don't know exactly how this place could be considered a failure, unless the strict goal of the board when created was to gather information about reasons behind 9-11. Has that not happened? Do we not all see the reasons? The interolance of humanity? Admit it, we're all intolerant of something.

If 9-11 discussions have slowed, or all together ceased, its likely because we've gotten most of the answers we were seeking. Whether directly or indirectly.

Yes, there is a lot of hate around here. Isn't there everywhere? I believe what's here is truly representative of whats out in the real world.

We don't need black flags or rods to remind us of extremism. We all have our extremes, somewhere. I think Rod did something very nasty. But equal to BF's posting of beheadings. Something extremely offensive to someone. Some would call videos of eating steak or deer offensive too. I don't much care for censorship, but I understand that this site isn't ours at all. Some of think because we frequent this board and use it most often, its ours. Its not. Its C-baby's now. And she allows admins free reign, probably based on Jon's feelings about his chosen admins. They probably have a good idea of what Jon would allow or not allow.

So the bottom line is...who cares? Really? So Rod isn't allowed to post his video of Quarn pissing. I might feel some false sense of justice when he's banned. But in reality, it matters not. His banning changes nothing in the world around me. This is a message board. That's it. Do I care if you take a picture of Jesus off your wall in your home, just because I'm a guest? No. I say, "huh...don't believe in Jesus?" (in my head) and go on my merry way. It has no effect on me, I don't care what's posted here. If I find it interesting, I read it. If I don't...I won't.

There can be no failure in this.

I've enjoyed my time here. I've learned a lot. Learned many a time that I *thought* I knew what I was talking about, but was quickly corrected. I was never a "news junkie" or a current events follower, accept for whatever came on the news. My, oh my, have I learned that I have opinions on EVERYTHING! Thanks to Jon for the board to learn this on! And thanks to my hubby for bringing me here. Its like an addiction. Rods and BFs make the drama. I hate the personal dramas of PMs and personal lives. At least Rods and BFs dramatic doesn't draw on he said, she said stupid shit, he posted my PM, she fucked this guy or that guy. That's not what I'm here to read, and not what keeps me coming back.What eloquence and truth! :happy_01:

[Bows]

I, much like you Synner, have gone on the a nearly identical political journey from hard-right at the beginning to centered, to almost purely leftist.

And I don't feel ashamed about it, not one bit. People here will call me "asshole" when they look at one or two isolated posts from me, and misinterpret how I approach things. I've been labeld the board's loudmouth, barking at the meek, and treating people wiht disrespect. You'll notice that the people who label me as such are the ones who tend not to answer the difficult question that befall them, or continue to lie to themselves to tow teh party line, or the agenda.

Am I an asshole? Some days, yes. Do I "get off" on bothering people? This is most assuredly not the case. What I've offered here has been and will always be, honesty. This place has changed me. I got tired of following leaders who made me wince when I heard their rhetoric. No one person in particular here has been the "big" influence, but just everyone as a whole. I've learned to question what I was sure I was correct about. I've also decided that some people who are set in their ways NEED to be challenged to think differently. And I've observed that quite a few people who've come here over the years were seeking just that, a reason to think differently.

Jon's board has been a rousing success, IMHO. His vision was flawed only in that he might have believed that people are inherently good, and will seek change. Not everyone does. Some are afraid to. Some are too lazy to change. Some don't even know they need a new perspective. But those that do, find this place, and it's lessons absolutely fascinating. I know I do.

You were my first impression when I first joined. Most of my first posts were countered almost soley by you regarding Janet's boob. :) It in fact did cause me to misinterpret you. But I came to love the way you don't mince words and tell it like it is. In fact, I respect it. You're right, what you offer is honesty. And most times, you say exactly what I'm thinking. Like now. IH offers lessons in perspective, seeing things differently, and thinking in new ways. The biggest thing I've learned here is what you said about not all people being inherently good and seeking change. I learned that isn't true and came to the same conclusion as you regarding why. Many fascinating lessons here for those open to new perspectives. Success.

[Gin&Juice]

*Burp*

[Bows]

*Burp*

Profound. :mad_01:

[Synner]

IH is not a failure, at least not in my humble opinion. Diversity is key, opposition fuels debate and discussion. How can one be enlightened without a variety of people expressing their beliefs, convictions, and their knowledge? After all, this site attempts to accomplish a great many things, being that there are so many sections of the board for different topics of discussion. This is specifically a discussion board about anything and everything. Sure, there are people here that rattle the cage and stir the shit pot. Sure, there are intelligent people as well. And there are even plenty of clowns. IH is entertainment. IH is a source of current events and news. IH is many things. What makes things difficult is that we sometimes take things too personally at IH. Example:

"Well, fuck. Corny fucking removed my post, pic, link, thread. That motherfucker is such an asshole".

Well folks...ever try moderating a site like this? About such topics that people take to heart, and maybe, too seriously?

Also, have you ever tried working with V-Bulletin boards?

Enough said. In closing, IH is here, and it is still generating interest, and still is stirring people's minds. I think it is a work in progress. How can something be considered as a failure if it is not finished?
I wasn't talking about the moderation. I just mentioned that as a catalyst for the train of thought in my first post. The discussion of recent moderation kind of spurred on talk of Jon's goals, and I was just trying to expound on that.

[God]

I wasn't talking about the moderation. I just mentioned that as a catalyst for the train of thought in my first post. The discussion of recent moderation kind of spurred on talk of Jon's goals, and I was just trying to expound on that.

You know, after thinking about it, I think I know what you were getting at in saying regis looked at IH as a failure, but I don't thinkyou understood.

He seemed to be rather disappointed that the US, people, and life in general in the 21st century was a failure. He posted more about the state of the economy, the world, and politics than he did about this board.

[Synner]

You know, after thinking about it, I think I know what you were getting at in saying regis looked at IH as a failure, but I don't thinkyou understood.

He seemed to be rather disappointed that the US, people, and life in general in the 21st century was a failure. He posted more about the state of the economy, the world, and politics than he did about this board.True. But there were some posts I remember seeing where he talked about the board specifically. Anyway...it's nothing I can say positively, or back up with definitive posts. It was just a feeling I had, and so it was something I felt compelled to talk about.

[Buffy]

True. But there were some posts I remember seeing where he talked about the board specifically. Anyway...it's nothing I can say positively, or back up with definitive posts. It was just a feeling I had, and so it was something I felt compelled to talk about.
What about the letter that the posted after Cand@ hacked the board? Something about the "hate fest" etc.

[Pispas]

What about the letter that the posted after Cand@ hacked the board? Something about the "hate fest" etc.I'm gonna try and phrase this in the most respectful way I know how.

There are more important things in life in general than constant slug matches and pettimindedness; Dave's Girl alluded to something along those lines in her last paragraph, which I fully endorse.

Things like that tend to stand out even more when one's health is affected and one realizes just *what* the most important treasure in life is. Petty crap like that just takes on another dimension then.

Just a personal thought and by no means an attempt at interpreting anyone.

[Gin&Juice]

It's a fucking message board people, get over yourselves.

[Virginia]

It's a fucking message board people, get over yourselves.
Behind every post on a message board is a person with character, feelings, thoughts and dreams. Realize this, grow up, and stop thinking "it doesn't matter it's just online."

[Solo]

It absolutely and without question is a success and as with all successful experiments, it is ongoing.

Jon is not here, but his creature, IH, continues, having become largely self sustaining. If, at the end of my days, I have done or created something that will live on with the purpose for which it was intended, then it will have been a good ride.


Imagine a hamster avatar
<-------over there

I seem to have outgrown the size limit...

Hi Hammy....setuju (imagine a thumbs up --------> over here) :)

[Solo]

......and if I may just add, Jon's experiment had nothing to do with just America. IH was aimed at people from all around the world. To that end, IH has been a resounding success.

What Hammy said....the experiment is ongoing.....in many different ways.

[God]

Behind every post on a message board is a person with character, feelings, thoughts and dreams. Realize this, grow up, and stop thinking "it doesn't matter it's just online."

As I said in another thread, Sarcasm is clearly not your friend. :add09:

[happyjill]

Success.

I dig it at least. You peeps are funny, and it's pretty cool to have the potential for intelligent conversation about the important topics of the day with people I don't really know. I'm a pretty progressive thinking fellow and it's been pretty good for me to challenge that thinking by listening to the often intelligent reasoning of people who are of a different political stripe than me. So, personally speaking, I've benefitted from my time here.

I'm not sure about the final thoughts about ih from Mr. Messner. I figure that he must have been pretty depressed about a lot of things, so may have been a little hard on himself regarding the "failure" of his creation here too. Really if even a small number of people come away from ih better educated, or impassioned about the world from their participation here, then isn't that a good thing?

I'll miss it when it's gone(all things must end and things which are freely provided are usually the first to go), as will many other folks-so by that measure at least that is a sign that it had an impact on people's lives.

edit. oh! I almost forgot to mention that I have always appreciated the irony of an American internet porn site operator hacking an Al-qaeda website and jerking those dillholes around...alqaeda.com and the cease and desist order that Mr Messner put out to AQ were always a scream to me. I always thought of it as being "in" on a gigantic joke. ha ha.

[mackinnon]

Also not forgetting the current mods & administrators who must feel like they are doing a thankless task sometimes.

I salute you!

[smilebong]

Success - a - rooni.

This is one of the best sites I have ever posted on. I learned all about how windows handles certain things from the geeks here. I learned a bit about Jewish foods here. I learned way too much about aberrant sex here. And I learned some about jerks from Islamic countries who think America is hell.

I learned much more, but one thing is evident. No matter how much crap somebody gives you, if something truly difficult happens, the long timers are always good to you.

I appreciate IH, even though I see spiders crawling up the wall when I don;t come on here. :add01:

[Dora]

Also not forgetting the current mods & administrators who must feel like they are doing a thankless task sometimes.

I salute you!

Ass kisser. :D

j/k I love em, too!

[mackinnon]

Ass kisser. :D

j/k I love em, too!

I know, it DOES sound quite obsequious.

After the whole Qu'ran video escapade, I couldn't believe all the selfish folk mouthing off at the people who run the site. If they didn't run it, we wouldn't be here. Simple.

So on behalf of the silent majority, I'm just letting them know we ain't all selfish wee wankers! :)

[Virginia]

As I said in another thread, Sarcasm is clearly not your friend. :add09:
Clearly original lines aren't yours :D

[smilebong]

Clearly original lines aren't yours :D
You mean he didn't make up, "Why don't you just leave?"

I don't know if this site will live any longer. YOu know that everyone always looked for the occasional appearance of Jon and his "stupid thread" ending statements. He seemed to know just when enough crap was enough. And I really liked that in him. He didn't bother with people who were small.

[undertaker]

The grand experiment is was and still is a grand success!

Orson

[pixikill]

The grand experiment is was and still is a grand success!

Orson
you tell 'em orson!!! :)

so, how're things in your backyard, fella?

[Flying_Monkey]

I would have to say it's a success in many ways.

There was more than one reason Jon started it all and at one point it saved lives.
The danger to the USS Kitty Hawk was averted.

[Proud American]

I would have to say it's a success in many ways.

There was more than one reason Jon started it all and at one point it saved lives.
The danger to the USS Kitty Hawk was averted.
I agree that this board is a success in many ways as well. I too, like alot of other posters have learned from IH and will continue too as long as IH is here. Wow!! I didnt know that lives had been saved due to Jon's vision, what a great man he was. Does anyone here know the whole story of how lives were saved on the USS Kitty Hawk?

[Flying_Monkey]

I agree that this board is a success in many ways as well. I too, like alot of other posters have learned from IH and will continue too as long as IH is here. Wow!! I didnt know that lives had been saved due to Jon's vision, what a great man he was. Does anyone here know the whole story of how lives were saved on the USS Kitty Hawk?

The al-neda group found a bunch of mujahideen talking about the ship as a target on one of their boards and the navy was warned.

[Tigger]

This site will always be a success no matter how many fights...trolling expeditions or flame wars...I dont think anyone could tear this site down..to many hard heads post here...

[happy]

This forum got me very interesting to read of what is going on around the world and peoples. I don't know Regis, but I read about him very interesting and very sad that him got very sick and pass away few mos.ago Peaceful for Regis. Glad that this forum stay up. It mean alot to him. Grand Success.

[Motley]

up. (Never forget him)

[Ono]

.... :)

[exitwound]

.... :)

:add06: :happy_01: :sex_10: :happy_01:

[exitwound]

I would have to say it's a success in many ways.

There was more than one reason Jon started it all and at one point it saved lives.
The danger to the USS Kitty Hawk was averted.

I am sure that the information, analysis and rapid-reaction that has taken place here has not gone unnoticed. There are reasons why sites like IH exist, you know. Some have more immediately selfish motivations like my web publishing/advertising/consulting businesses for example....others' paths of supply and demand flow along entirely different conduits. But the ultimate goals have been the same, and a lot of people on IH have gotten a damn lot done in the process. I suspect the Kitty Hawk was not the only victory secured or disaster averted because of the time and energy put into these matters by people on IH, and those we co-ordinate with on other similar sites around the web.

[Roman_Agenda]

Well hello again ih'ers...

Not exactly sure why, but I logged on to the site again today for the first time in what, years I suppose? In any event, I found about about Regis getting sick and then taking his own life... to which, I was saddened to hear of this outcome. I'm not exactly sure about the Rod or blackflag issues, and not all that certain I care, but to read this post about Regis thinking his vision was a waste... I can't say I agree even remotely with that statement... even if at the time, his faith in this project had diminished into a disaster of he who speaks loudest... shall be the only one heard.

So... and for those that aren't familiar with me, get a comfy seat and prepare for a short novel... it's a disease, I can't help it... I feel like I need to share my 2 cents on the matter.

First... I remember this site starting out and stumbling across it not long after 911... not all that politically inclined prior to that event, I was enraged, horrified, curious, and a wide range of other things... I was confused. When finding this site, I found many like myself, Regis included... who started the site to understand above all else... it wasn't about pumping pro US diatribes into cyberspace to vent that anger... it wasn't about making a dollar, or pimping his other ventures... he wanted to talk to those on both sides of the issues, he wanted to know why... about a wide range of things... he needed to understand why his perception of the world changed in one day.

So to that effect, this site is, was, and will remain to be an astounding success... he like many of us have spent countless hours/days/weeks reading, discussing, learning, and understanding.... it fed his need, it fed many of us that very same need. Apart from all the negatives... there are positives... we've learned new things, been embarassed and proven wrong.. changed our minds, changed the minds of others... we've communicated here about these topics for a reason... because we needed to learn, understand, prove, discuss, argue, and debate all the things we felt passionate about.

Second, and probably most important... even though I didn't agree with Regis very often, I always admired him for being so brave and fearless. He stole the doman/site from Alneada, turned it over to the feds... that alone... come on... it's remarkable... simply astonishing. Then to recognize the opportunity he had and turning it into a site where both sides could talk and make their points and arguments... it's mind blowing... vision... that's pretty much an understatement... and those who know me, know I'm not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass for any reason... but like the guy or hate him... admire him or hate him for making money from porn... he was a pretty fearless and he turned a site based on hatred into a site based on understanding... discussion... learning...

Anyone who's spent any fair amount of time on this site, that can honestly say they haven't learned anything... is simply lying.

I admire Jon... always have, always will... in life or death... he's an inspiration to anyone who lets fear get in the way of their dreams...

His family should be, and I'm sure they are, so very proud of the life he lived, and the legacy he left... one could only hope to leave behind such a positive impact on so many lives during their short time here.

So my vote... is that his "project" was a smashing success, and still is. Anyone who says different, simply doesn't get it, and probably never will.

Thank you Jon... for helping us all understand by providing an outlet for us to communicate with people that do not share the same opinions or life experiences we do. We may never fully understand any of the topics we discuss... but we're discussing them.... that means a lot.

Ra

[JimHere4U]

You made me all misty. You've always had a way with words. And I know for a fact that Jon's wife will MORE than appreciate your sentiments and observations. She reads and responds to most posts regarding Jon. You're a sweetheart man, and I look forward to reading and learning from your future posts. Welcome back to Hell.:)

Cbaby, not that I'm the IH watchdog, but this guy is a good egg.

[Cbaby]

Well hello again ih'ers...

Not exactly sure why, but I logged on to the site again today for the first time in what, years I suppose? In any event, I found about about Regis getting sick and then taking his own life... to which, I was saddened to hear of this outcome. I'm not exactly sure about the Rod or blackflag issues, and not all that certain I care, but to read this post about Regis thinking his vision was a waste... I can't say I agree even remotely with that statement... even if at the time, his faith in this project had diminished into a disaster of he who speaks loudest... shall be the only one heard.

So... and for those that aren't familiar with me, get a comfy seat and prepare for a short novel... it's a disease, I can't help it... I feel like I need to share my 2 cents on the matter.

First... I remember this site starting out and stumbling across it not long after 911... not all that politically inclined prior to that event, I was enraged, horrified, curious, and a wide range of other things... I was confused. When finding this site, I found many like myself, Regis included... who started the site to understand above all else... it wasn't about pumping pro US diatribes into cyberspace to vent that anger... it wasn't about making a dollar, or pimping his other ventures... he wanted to talk to those on both sides of the issues, he wanted to know why... about a wide range of things... he needed to understand why his perception of the world changed in one day.

So to that effect, this site is, was, and will remain to be an astounding success... he like many of us have spent countless hours/days/weeks reading, discussing, learning, and understanding.... it fed his need, it fed many of us that very same need. Apart from all the negatives... there are positives... we've learned new things, been embarassed and proven wrong.. changed our minds, changed the minds of others... we've communicated here about these topics for a reason... because we needed to learn, understand, prove, discuss, argue, and debate all the things we felt passionate about.

Second, and probably most important... even though I didn't agree with Regis very often, I always admired him for being so brave and fearless. He stole the doman/site from Alneada, turned it over to the feds... that alone... come on... it's remarkable... simply astonishing. Then to recognize the opportunity he had and turning it into a site where both sides could talk and make their points and arguments... it's mind blowing... vision... that's pretty much an understatement... and those who know me, know I'm not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass for any reason... but like the guy or hate him... admire him or hate him for making money from porn... he was a pretty fearless and he turned a site based on hatred into a site based on understanding... discussion... learning...

Anyone who's spent any fair amount of time on this site, that can honestly say they haven't learned anything... is simply lying.

I admire Jon... always have, always will... in life or death... he's an inspiration to anyone who lets fear get in the way of their dreams...

His family should be, and I'm sure they are, so very proud of the life he lived, and the legacy he left... one could only hope to leave behind such a positive impact on so many lives during their short time here.

So my vote... is that his "project" was a smashing success, and still is. Anyone who says different, simply doesn't get it, and probably never will.

Thank you Jon... for helping us all understand by providing an outlet for us to communicate with people that do not share the same opinions or life experiences we do. We may never fully understand any of the topics we discuss... but we're discussing them.... that means a lot.

Ra

Thank you Ra ... that was extremely accurate and very well said :)

[Cbaby]

You made me all misty. You've always had a way with words. And I know for a fact that Jon's wife will MORE than appreciate your sentiments and observations. She reads and responds to most posts regarding Jon. You're a sweetheart man, and I look forward to reading and learning from your future posts. Welcome back to Hell.:)

Cbaby, not that I'm the IH watchdog, but this guy is a good egg.

Thanks Jimmy. You may not be the IH watchdog, but you can be mine :D

[JimHere4U]

Thanks Jimmy. You may not be the IH watchdog, but you can be mine :D

You know I'd always look out for you. :)

[Cbaby]

You know I'd always look out for you. :)


:love_08:

[death2aq]

Well hello again ih'ers...

Not exactly sure why, but I logged on to the site again today for the first time in what, years I suppose? In any event, I found about about Regis getting sick and then taking his own life... to which, I was saddened to hear of this outcome. I'm not exactly sure about the Rod or blackflag issues, and not all that certain I care, but to read this post about Regis thinking his vision was a waste... I can't say I agree even remotely with that statement... even if at the time, his faith in this project had diminished into a disaster of he who speaks loudest... shall be the only one heard.

So... and for those that aren't familiar with me, get a comfy seat and prepare for a short novel... it's a disease, I can't help it... I feel like I need to share my 2 cents on the matter.

First... I remember this site starting out and stumbling across it not long after 911... not all that politically inclined prior to that event, I was enraged, horrified, curious, and a wide range of other things... I was confused. When finding this site, I found many like myself, Regis included... who started the site to understand above all else... it wasn't about pumping pro US diatribes into cyberspace to vent that anger... it wasn't about making a dollar, or pimping his other ventures... he wanted to talk to those on both sides of the issues, he wanted to know why... about a wide range of things... he needed to understand why his perception of the world changed in one day.

So to that effect, this site is, was, and will remain to be an astounding success... he like many of us have spent countless hours/days/weeks reading, discussing, learning, and understanding.... it fed his need, it fed many of us that very same need. Apart from all the negatives... there are positives... we've learned new things, been embarassed and proven wrong.. changed our minds, changed the minds of others... we've communicated here about these topics for a reason... because we needed to learn, understand, prove, discuss, argue, and debate all the things we felt passionate about.

Second, and probably most important... even though I didn't agree with Regis very often, I always admired him for being so brave and fearless. He stole the doman/site from Alneada, turned it over to the feds... that alone... come on... it's remarkable... simply astonishing. Then to recognize the opportunity he had and turning it into a site where both sides could talk and make their points and arguments... it's mind blowing... vision... that's pretty much an understatement... and those who know me, know I'm not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass for any reason... but like the guy or hate him... admire him or hate him for making money from porn... he was a pretty fearless and he turned a site based on hatred into a site based on understanding... discussion... learning...

Anyone who's spent any fair amount of time on this site, that can honestly say they haven't learned anything... is simply lying.

I admire Jon... always have, always will... in life or death... he's an inspiration to anyone who lets fear get in the way of their dreams...

His family should be, and I'm sure they are, so very proud of the life he lived, and the legacy he left... one could only hope to leave behind such a positive impact on so many lives during their short time here.

So my vote... is that his "project" was a smashing success, and still is. Anyone who says different, simply doesn't get it, and probably never will.

Thank you Jon... for helping us all understand by providing an outlet for us to communicate with people that do not share the same opinions or life experiences we do. We may never fully understand any of the topics we discuss... but we're discussing them.... that means a lot.

Ra

Wish I could learn how to say it like that. Thank you.

[voyeurgirl]

Almost one year. :( I sure miss Regis, but I'm sure glad to have gotten to know cbaby. :)

[sidthereal]

Almost one year. :( I sure miss Regis, but I'm sure glad to have gotten to know cbaby. :)


http://www.hjortur.dk/hjortur/20040118-candle-light.jpg

Regis may you rest in peace.



Cbaby, unfortunately, I didnt get to know Regis that much, but my interactions with you have been really wonderful.
You are a wonderful lady,a fabulous friend and a very very good painter :)

[Cbaby]

Almost one year. :( I sure miss Regis, but I'm sure glad to have gotten to know cbaby. :)


I sure miss Regis too! It has been a pleasure getting to know you too :)

[Cbaby]

http://www.hjortur.dk/hjortur/20040118-candle-light.jpg

Regis may you rest in peace.



Cbaby, unfortunately, I didnt get to know Regis that much, but my interactions with you have been really wonderful.
You are a wonderful lady,a fabulous friend and a very very good painter :)

Nice sentiment Sid. And thank you for the compliments. You aren't so bad yourself :D

[sidthereal]

Nice sentiment Sid. And thank you for the compliments. You aren't so bad yourself :D
you kidding me!!
have you seen me put pen to paper, forget painting!!

Your paintings were great, and I aint giving false compliments. Im sure all here agree. And as far as being a person is concerned, I admittedly am not half the material you've shown yourself to be.
Please dont act modest on these points

[Cbaby]

you kidding me!!
have you seen me put pen to paper, forget painting!!

Your paintings were great, and I aint giving false compliments. Im sure all here agree. And as far as being a person is concerned, I admittedly am not half the material you've shown yourself to be.
Please dont act modest on these points

:) I've got age on ya Sid....I am who I am...pretty much the same person that I am here, I am offline too.

[sidthereal]

:) I've got age on ya Sid....I am who I am...pretty much the same person that I am here, I am offline too.
you sound just like me.

*CHEERS* :)

[Motley]

Up for Regis

[Motley]

9/11 bump