More evidence that Saudi Government was behind Osama

[Bman]

Well, well , well.. what do we have here

While Bush strolls through the daisies, holding hands with the Saudi Princes, we continue to find out that not only do the Saudi's FUND these guys.. but they set them up with paperwork as well

BTW, that is why Mohammad Atta and his gang were "off limits" to the FBI before 9/11,..... turns out they were (like this guy) carrying Saudi diplomatic papers.. That is the allegation in Daniel Hopsicker's book, "Welcome to Terrorland"


Copyright 2005 The Financial Times Limited
Financial Times (London, England)

April 28, 2005 Thursday
London Edition

Al-Qaeda suspect 'had envoy's passport' TERROR FINANCING:

By STEPHEN FIDLER

LONDON


A Swiss-based businessman accused by the US Treasury of providing financial help to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda carried a Saudi diplomatic passport, according to copies of documents contained in a book published today in Paris.

The documents include a letter from the US Treasury to the Swiss authorities, which says that al-Qaeda and its leader received financial assistance from the businessman, Ali bin Mussalim, "as of late September 2001". They also include a copy of Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic passport.

The disclosures, contained in Al-Qaeda Will Conquer (Al-Qa'ida Vaincra), by the author Guillaume Dasquie, will be uncomfortable reading for the Saudi government, which has disputed any suggestions of official complicity in the attacks of September 11 2001.

The January 2002 letter from George Wolfe, then the US Treasury's deputy general counsel, says Mr bin Mussalim "has been providing indirect investment services for al-Qaeda, investing funds for bin Laden, and making cash deliveries on request to the al-Qaeda organisation".

The letter links him to the now defunct Bank Al-Taqwa and its founder, Youssef Nada. Both have been named by the US and United Nations as providers of terrorist finance.

The existence of the letter has been previously reported by some news organisations, but Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic status was not emphasised.

According to the book, Mr bin Mussalim was found dead in his residence in Lausanne last June, a month after reports of the US Treasury letter first emerged.

The book draws attention to Mr bin Mussalim's role as intermediary in negotiations over the Euros 4.3bn (Dollars 5.56bn, Pounds 2.9bn) Sawari 2 contract, signed in 1994 between the French and Saudi governments to supply frigates to the Saudi navy and for which it says he received Euros 50m in commissions.

Mr bin Mussalim's role in controversial financial dealings goes back to the early 1980s, when US prosecutors accused him and others of attempts to corner the silver market.

Other documents cited in the book include a flight manifest of the so-called bin Laden flight, in which members of the bin Laden family were flown out of the US in the days after the September 11 attacks.

The manifest shows 29 people aboard the flight that flew to Le Bourget airport from Boston on September 20, after originating in Los Angeles and then flying to Orlando and Washington Dulles airport. This contradicts the number cited in the report of the 9/11 Commission published last year, which said there were 26 people aboard.

The manifest shows the aircraft flew on from Le Bourget to Geneva and Jeddah

[Bman]

and of course.. that is why they loaded up that plane right after 9/11.. to get those Saudi diplomats and other "dignitaries" out of the US before the FBI could get to them

Bman

[Mr. Drags]

I still remember the expense the Saudi government went to when they launched their PR radio and television campaign last year claiming they were not in league with al q.

reminded me of the old Shakespearean quote "methinks thou doth protest oo much.'

[Bman]

so where are our Neo-con friends??

and why aren't they pushing for an invasion of Saudi Arabia?

Seems to me there is FAR MORE EVIDENCE linking the Saudi Government to the hijackers than there ever was linking Saddam to Al Qaeda..


So , why is their hero walking around holding hands with the Saudi Government?? Or for that matter, the Paki government as well.. which is equally linked to Al Qaeda, Osama AND the 9/11 hijackers??


Don't you Bush supporters ever get tired of being played like fiddles?? Don't you ever get tired of being lied to? Don't you ever get tired of being FULL OF SHIT??

Bman

[born2kill]

I would not doubt it one bit.

I understand the Saudis were quite anxious to see US forces leave the birthplace of Mohammed after ejecting Iraq from Kuwait. And many were angered we stayed so long. It was (is) one of OBL's demands.

[Bman]

I would not doubt it one bit.

I understand the Saudis were quite anxious to see US forces leave the birthplace of Mohammed after ejecting Iraq from Kuwait. And many were angered we stayed so long. It was (is) one of OBL's demands.


Doubt it??

what is there to doubt?? The evidence linking the SAUDI GOVERNMENT TO OSAMA, Mohammad Atta, the 9/11 hijackers, et al is OVERWHELMING

what is scary, however, is that our government protected those hijackers while they were here and they CONTINUE TO PROTECT the people behind them.. to this day...

WHY??

Bman

[Rightwingnut]

This is really starting to piss me off. I still do NOT buy into the Bush as Caesar bullshit, but there is something going on here that has never smelled right. The more it moves forward the more I feel foolish for not listning to the protests about our involvment with the Saudis. And what really gets me is that if there is some backdooring going on there does not seem to be anything we can do about it. The Dem leadership is either in bed with the secrets or does not recognize it.

[Bman]

And what really gets me is that if there is some backdooring going on there does not seem to be anything we can do about it. The Dem leadership is either in bed with the secrets or does not recognize it.


The Dem leadership is either in bed with the secrets or does not recognize it

Its the former.. they're in bed with it.. Clinton was every bit as guilty as Bush.. and still is


Welcome to my rage

Bman

[Leonidas]

90% of the Saudi population has a very high level of sympothy for Al Qaeda.

What do YOU want to do about it BMAN? Should we invade? Should we nuke? Should we pressure for them to change? Should we try to offer them more objective news sources instead of their state controlled Anti-Western propaganda? Oh wait...we're already doing the last two things.


And personally BMAN, if I believed the black helicopter dumbass shit you believe in....I would have sympothy for Al Qaeda too. I think you would fit right in with the Saudis.

[Bman]

I'd encourage anyone interested in this topic to read the articles at www.madcowprod.com

This guy moved to Venice, Florida where the terrorists lived and trained before 9/11 and he's been doing some OUTSTANDING investigative journalism down there... He's our generations' Bob Woodard, if you ask me

Read his article about how the FBI shut down an investigation into a Saudi terror cell in Boston here

http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html

Read here how the FBI had an information LIVING with two of the hijackers...

http://www.madcowprod.com/Shaikh.html


Bman

[Bman]

90% of the Saudi population has a very high level of sympothy for Al Qaeda.

What do YOU want to do about it BMAN? Should we invade? Should we nuke? Should we pressure for them to change? Should we try to offer them more objective news sources instead of their state controlled Anti-Western propaganda? Oh wait...we're already doing the last two things.


And personally BMAN, if I believed the black helicopter dumbass shit you believe in....I would have sympothy for Al Qaeda too. I think you would fit right in with the Saudis.


The first step would be to impeach our treasonous President, who is protecting the enemy

nothing can be done until that first step is accomplished

Bman

[born2kill]

Fresh find Bman! "With friends like this who needs enemies?"

Saudi chief justice urges fighting U.S.
Comments caught on tape encouraging battle in Iraq

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/luhaidan.jpg

Posted: April 27, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Is Saudi Arabia an ally or enemy of the United States in the war on terror?

The question is raised with the disclosure of secretly recorded comments from the kingdom's chief justice encouraging young Saudis to travel to Iraq to wage war against Americans.

"If someone knows that he is capable of entering Iraq in order to join the fight, and if his intention is to raise up the word of God, then he is free to do so," says Sheik Saleh Al Luhaidan in Arabic on the October audiotape from a government mosque, obtained by NBC News.

While Luhaidan warns Iraq is risky because "evil satellites and drone aircraft" watch the borders, he stresses making the trip to fight Americans is religiously permissible.

"The lawfulness of his action is in fighting an enemy who is fighting Muslims and came for war," says Luhaidan.

"This statement shows the real face of the Saudi government," Saudi dissident Ali Al-Ahmed of the Washington-based Saudi Institute told NBC, noting Saudi officials, including Luhaidan, publicly oppose holy war in Iraq, but send a different message in private.

"He is telling Saudis it's OK to go to Iraq and kill Americans and Iraqis and they won't be punished for doing that," says Al-Ahmed.

When a Saudi spokesman denied the authenticity of the tape, the network contacted Luhaidan himself in Saudi Arabia to play the tape.

"Yes, this is my voice," the sheik confirmed in Arabic.

But Luhaidan said he meant to convey the message that it's "not worth it for young Saudis to go to Iraq and that the Iraqis are capable of fighting on their own," according to NBC.

The revelations on the tape come the same week Saudi Arabia's crown prince met with President Bush in Texas to discuss oil-related and economic issues, and extremism was also said to be discussed.

Last month, responding to a report revealing Saudi exportation of religious extremism to the U.S., 15 senators sent a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice demanding the Bush administration take stronger action against Riyadh.

New York Democrat Charles Schumer was among the signers of the letter, which called for the U.S. to define its relationship with Saudi Arabia more clearly.

Schumer stated: "It is a massive contradiction that a country we call an ally could be both so regressive in their own country and so brazen in its propagation of anti-American, anti-women, anti-Semitic books, publications, and practices. American security is undermined as the Saudi government exports these hateful commodities to millions beyond its borders, planting the seeds for new generations of terrorists and totalitarian Wahhabi leaders."


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43995 (http://)

[Bman]

What's it going to take for people to finally get it?? The Bush Administration (for whatever reason) IS PROTECTING the Saudis... Maybe that is because the Bushies allowed 9/11 to happen.. I don't know.. maybe its because they're afraid the Saudis will reveal secrets about the Bush families covert dealings with them in the past (ie, Iran/Contra, etc)... who knows..

all I know is the evidence is overwhelming that Bush is protecting the Saudis

When the Congress investigated 9/11, Bush blacked out something like 29 pages of the report that according to at least one Senator on the Committee, linked the terrorists to support from a foreign government. Leaked news confirmed it was the Saudis.. The Senators were urging the President to declassify the pages as they claimed there weren't any national secrets in the documents.. Bush wouldn't budge.. Why?

Well maybe he wanted to protect his Uncle.. Jonathan Bush, who is a senior executive at Riggs Bank.. Riggs Bank has been fined by the government for allowing money laudering , including money that went to terrorists.. A Federal Judge recently called Riggs Bank, "a greedy henchman of dictators and their cruel regimes"...

Riggs Bank was sued by the families of victims of 9/11,... they also sued the Saudi Royals and Prince Bandar himself.. The Prince was no dummy, however.. he went out and hired the MOST POLITICALLY CONNECTED LAWYER in the country..

that would be James Baker... who was Sec. of State under George HW Bush, and also the man that took the Bush/Gore Florida ballot case to the Supreme Court...

so why is the Bush family consigliere representing the Saudis and working AGAINST the families of 9/11 victims???

you tell me

Bman

[Bman]

...

[Bman]

90% of the Saudi population has a very high level of sympothy for Al Qaeda.

What do YOU want to do about it BMAN? Should we invade? Should we nuke? Should we pressure for them to change? Should we try to offer them more objective news sources instead of their state controlled Anti-Western propaganda? Oh wait...we're already doing the last two things.


And personally BMAN, if I believed the black helicopter dumbass shit you believe in....I would have sympothy for Al Qaeda too. I think you would fit right in with the Saudis.



Black helicopter eh??

LOL.. ok .. I made this story up..

Stick your head back in your ass so you can't hear the truth..

Bman

[Mr. Drags]

Hell, I remember talking to one of North Carolina's US Senators (both are Republican) but our newest Senator,. Richard Burr flat out told me Saudi Arabia needs to choose which side they are on

[Rightwingnut]

I'm telling you man...the Moderates are starting to wake up. Some of us (see:me) kept pushing the fucking snooze button though.




Hell, I remember talking to one of North Carolina's US Senators (both are Republican) but our newest Senator,. Richard Burr flat out told me Saudi Arabia needs to choose which side they are on

[Mr. Drags]

I'm telling you man...the Moderates are starting to wake up. Some of us (see:me) kept pushing the fucking snooze button though.
yes, most of your moderate republicans (little r) are realizing the virgin's pregnant

[Bman]

Hell, I remember talking to one of North Carolina's US Senators (both are Republican) but our newest Senator,. Richard Burr flat out told me Saudi Arabia needs to choose which side they are on


So does Bush

although it appears to me they've already decided

[Leonidas]

Cute couple.

[SmokedYourDSM]

http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/jpg/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

that happened in 1983... 10 years later we first went in, 20 years later we kicked ass...
perhaps the saudis will one day suffer the same fate.

America likes to make countries THINK they are our friends. Than, at the last minute, we change stances.
Noreaga
Osama
Saddam
whose next?

[lotimer]

http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/jpg/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg

that happened in 1983... 10 years later we first went in, 20 years later we kicked ass...
perhaps the saudis will one day suffer the same fate.

America likes to make countries THINK they are our friends. Than, at the last minute, we change stances.
Noreaga
Osama
Saddam
whose next?
Most probably Pakistan's Musharraf is next. We're supplying them with F-16s and also knowledge of how to develop effective nuclear weapons. That'll probably come back to haunt us.

[Mr. Drags]

Most probably Pakistan's Musharraf is next. We're supplying them with F-16s and also knowledge of how to develop effective nuclear weapons. That'll probably come back to haunt us.
damn, I'm agreeing with you

But we shouldn't trust Mushie any more than we can trust the scorpion not to sting the frog carrying him across the river on his back. that SOB is exactly like the Saudis, plying both sides of the fence. we shouldn't deal with him

[SmokedYourDSM]

i'd hate to take a page from bigearths cut and pastes, but he does actually have a point. American gov, be it democratic/republican/whoever is leading, looks out for its own interest. not those of any other countries. not those of the american people, but america, the entity as a whole.
Case in point how many of thse decisions does the AMERICAN GOV regret making.
Compare that to how many people disaprove of these actrions, let alone even KNOW about em.
actions speak louder than words...

1953: CIA engineers the removal of elected government in Iran--installs dictatorship under the Shah.

1954: CIA organises overthrow of the elected government of Guatemala--30 years of military dictatorship, repression and civil war follow.

1954: US intervenes to prevent elections in Vietnam that would unify the country.

1958: Troops deployed in Panama. Confrontations continue until 1964.

1960: Beginning of US war in Vietnam. Continues until 1975

1961: US organises attempts to overthrow the Cuban government at the Bay of Pigs.

1965: 22,000 troops sent to Dominican Republic to combat the constitutional forces trying to regain power.

1965: US-backed coup in Indonesia. Estimated death toll 500,000

1967: CIA helps to engineer military coup in Greece.

1969: Secret bombing of Cambodia begins. Resulting coup and civil war lead to the deaths of about 2 million people.

1971: Carpet bombing of Laos and US-backed South Vietnamese invasion.

1973: CIA helps overthrow the democratic government of Allende in Chile in favour of the Pinochet regime.

1976: CIA assistance for South African backed rebels in Angola--continues until 1992.

1979: Coup in El Salvador. US provides arms and 'advisers' to military regime in civil war that kills 75,000 people.

1981: Reagan administration begins the Contra war in Nicaragua--30,000 killed.

1982: US intervention to expel PLO and back right wing Phalangists in Lebanon.

1986: Raids on Libya in attempt to topple Gaddafi.

1987: US moves to direct support for Iraq in war with Iran. USS Vincennes shoots down Iranian airliner, killing 290.

1990: Gulf War. Continuing US raids on Iraq, followed by sanctions which kill over 1 million people.

1992: US-led occupation of Somalia.

[NYC]

The Dem leadership is either in bed with the secrets or does not recognize it

Its the former.. they're in bed with it.. Clinton was every bit as guilty as Bush.. and still is


Welcome to my rage

Bman

Yes, but the Bush family and the Suadi Royal family do have a very close (and long) personal relationship. Clinton might have been in bed with they but the Bushs are "spooning" with them

(not sporking Drags)

[Bman]

Yes, but the Bush family and the Suadi Royal family do have a very close (and long) personal relationship. Clinton might have been in bed with they but the Bushs are "spooning" with them

(not sporking Drags)


That's true.. I've read alot about Clinton's relationship with the Saudis too

Clinton is an honorary member of the Bush crime family, if you ask me.. Notice how HW and Clinton are best buddies all of a sudden??

They probably get together and compare notes on who they pardoned for political favors and speculate as to whom W will pardon

HW: Well I pardoned a Pakistani heroin dealer who was doing 50 years .. and this was in the early 90s.. when the drug war was a big deal!!

Slick: Well that's nuthin... I pardoned an international fugitive, who's linked to all kinds of scandals...

HW: well I pardoned a national security official about to go on trial for Iran/Contra..

Slick: Dude... you got me...

BOTH: ITS GOOD TO BE A LAME DUCK!


Bman

[SmokedYourDSM]

heres a cut and paste about your notion of pakistan, Bman.
from asca.net/indexmain.html

April 10, 2005: WHOSE BRILLIANT IDEA WAS THIS? WHY HAS THE US GOVERNMENT APPROVED SELLING F-16'S TO PAKISTAN'S MILITARY, LED BY THE MAN WHOSE IDEA IT WAS TO CREATE AL QAEDA IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Pakistan's President Musharraf is the silent partner in transactions involving the AQ KHAN network selling Nuclear Weapons to Saddam Hussein, Mohamar Khadafi, the Iranian military, Syria and likely, North Korea. He is also the man who ordered Bin Laden to deploy the 9/11 attack. His Government runs hundreds of illegal Heroin refineries, and deals in Small Arms to the terrorism community, giving them heroin to use as currency.

Why are we helping this man's hidden agenda? In an abrupt about face, the Defense and State Departments have seemingly indicated that the sale of US made F-16 Fighter Aircraft to Musharraf has "now been approved" as an apparent reward for President/General Musharraf's alleged effort at improving our hunt for Terrorism. That Generalissimo Parvez Musharraf, is king of the sale of Nuclear Secrets around the world, and father of the movement to create Al Qaeda as a brick bat for expanded tactical advantage around the world.

In a move that is analogous to giving Adolph Hitler a few Enterprise Class Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carriers at the outbreak of WWII, the American Military and US Government have just demonstrated exactly how weak its intelligence gathering apparatus truly is, failing to notice that it was Musharraf who ordered Bin Laden to strike the USA on 9/11/2001.

Apparently OUR intelligence gathering ability exceeds that of all the combined intelligence organizations of the CIA, because WE have found these facts out, and apparently THEY (the CIA) are still living in an advanced state of denial that their exit from Afghanistan at the end of the Cold War and the Russian siege of Afghanistan led to the power vacuum into which Pakistan's then leader Bhutto, and her generals, including Musharraf at the wheel, injected and cultivated Al Qaeda into, along with Bin Laden, in the first place.

In an extraordinarily bad decision, efforts at bringing about the end to global terrorism and nuclear proliferation, whose epicenter is quietly centered in Pakistan, has taken a bad turn on an excuse that seems to harbor an even deadlier error in Judgment: the belief on the part of certain voices at the CIA that Musharraf can be "bought with technology rewards and economic advances in his military power." It was PRECISELY this sort of tactical mistake on the part of the CIA, that led to the interim financing and equipping of the Iraqi Military during the rise of Saddam Hussein. That blunder eventually cascaded into the situation which required US intervention in the Gulf in 1992 and again in 2003 removing Saddam Hussein from office.

While Musharraf puts on a "great show" of being an ally, it's all that, nothing more and nothing less than a "show", and falls far short of reality. ACSA calls for President Bush to "re-examine our system of rewards and punishments" for those who covertly anchor the enemies of every Democracy on Planet Earth hiding in Pakistan, and halt the sale of Arms to the world capital of Terrorism and Heroin, far outstripping Syria and Iran in that role... The game being played here is a bad one, and some of the apples proponing this course of action are, in fact, BAD APPLES needing removal from the bushel. ( News )

[NYC]

Man Smoke! Make some paragraphs please! That's as dense as meatloaf!

[SmokedYourDSM]

oops :mad_01:

[Bman]

Good post..

It appears the Al Qaeda folks had many supporters.. The Saudi government appears to have provided "cover" documentation and immigration material, no doubt because they knew the Federal government in 2001 was very sympathetic to the Saudis and would order the FBI to back off any investigations they might start in that direction.. that's exactly what happened...

The Paki intelligence director at the time appears to have had a role in it as well... but oddly enough, he was a flurry of intensive meetings with US intelligence folks right up to 9/11 and in fact that very morning was hanging out with Porter Goss (who was Congressman at the time)

We know that the Saudi Royals have been involved in CIA operations in the past... Prince Bandar admitted it.


So, I stand by my post that I made on the Conspiracy theories board.


From another thread:



It seems to me that there are two likely scenario that are "best fit" to the information that I have, which admittedly, is very limited.. I rely on reports that I can access on the internet.. with no first hand information...

On the one hand it seems that there was not only a negligent "neglect" on the part of the FBI and CIA prior to the 9/11 attack, but also an INTENTIONAL pattern of stonewalling investigations of terrorist threats... these seem to indicate intervention at high levels of the government. The big question is "WHY"??

One could surmise that perhaps the neocons, through their contacts with the Pakistani ISI (Dick Armitage was extremely close to the Paki Intelligence services) may have known that SOMETHING was about to happen. Its reasonable to conclude that there were people in the Paki ISI that knew a terrorist attack on the US was in the works... There were some very CURIOUS high level meetings between the head of Paki Intelligence and George Tenet, Porter Goss, and (allegedly, though its not proven) Condi Rice in the weeks and DAYS prior to 9/11.. IN fact, as 9/11 was actually happening, General Ahmed (the head of Paki ISI) was meeting with Porter Goss and Bob Graham, who are were key intelligence chairmen in the Congress.

Now what is extremely troubling is that General Ahmed was forced to RESIGN his position with the Paki ISI about a month after 9/11, after INDIAN INTELLIGENCE apparently provided the Americans with PROOF that General Ahmed was linked to Mohammad Atta... SPECIFICALLY, he ordered a man named Omar Sheik to wire $100,000 to Mohammad Atta just before the attacks (a month or two before, I think).. (Sheik was later convicted of playing a hand in the murder of Daniel Pearle... The US has never asked to put him on trial and to my knowledge he's still in Pakistan... though I'm not sure what his legal status is.. I'll look into it).

One theory might be that the neocons knew Osama was going to attack the US, but they didn't know exactly when or how. IN fact, I don't even think Osama himself knew when it would be.. exactly... One could surmise that the neocons were willing to let something shocking happen, to justify their military intervention in the Middle East.. (One could surmise that this is why they were in close consultation with Ahmed prior to 9/11... because he would have had an ear to alot of what was going on... but they (the neos) might not have realized that Ahmed himself was as close to Al Qaeda as we know now.) We know they were already planning the mid east military campaign prior to 9/11.. There are PNAC documents that specifically say that the wars they were planning would be difficult to launch , unless there were a "Pearl Harbor" type event... I believe one document even says something like, "such as a plane flying into a building"...

One could theorize that what happened at the WTC was way beyond anyone's expectations. however..... Indeed Osama himself seemed to be surprised (pleasantly) that the towers actually CAME down


Its difficult to believe this theory, simpy because it requires one to accept that people in the government were so evil as to allow (and indeed, hope for) a terrorist attack in order to coerce the public into accepting a war.

A second theory (WHICH IS THE ONE WE STARTED TO EXPLORE HERE), is that the CIA was working with Pakistani ISI and Saudi intelligence to support drug activities for the purpose of securing money to fund some other (unknown to me) black operations. What I'm hoping I have shown here is that this sort of thing has happened in the past and may be something that is ROUTINE. Is it not possible that Atta and his men were drug runners that were engaged in this EXACT activity?? Could it be, however, that they PULLED ONE OVER on the CIA.. that with the help of General Ahmed (who was providing key information.. or disinformation... to US intelligence folks) they actually allied themselves with Al Qaeda to pull off the trade center attacks. The US authorities might have known about Atta, etc.. but perhaps they simply thought that they he was running heroin (with the help of the CIA to keep him out of trouble)... as perhaps they had been doing for some time... But somewhere along the line, Atta and his gang "found Allah" and started working for Bin Laden.. and planning an attack... They knew they had "free reign" in the US because they had cover..

This second theory isn't as "sinister" as the first one because it implies that the neocons didn't KNOW there was going to be an attack, but rather... they were duped by Paki ISI and Al Qaeda.. so that the very men they (the CIA)were protecting.. men they thought were working covertly for the CIA, were actually plotting the 9/11 attacks.

Both of these theories would explain alot of things.. I don't have all the answers.. but it seems to me that either of these theories is at this point viable..

What I've posted in this thread so far is information that Atta was living a lifestyle that doesn't fit with the profile of "pious muslim on a suicide mission for Allah"... that George HW Bush inexplicably pardoned a Pakistani heroin dealer in the latter days of his presidency.. that a reporter who wrote a book about the CIA and the drug trade killed himself recently.. BY SHOOTING HIMSELF IN THE HEAD TWICE... That FBI agents are saying they were stonewalled at every turn prior to 9/11 when they started to get close to Atta and his ring...

In future posts I'll talk about how George Bush's uncle (HW's brother) was (and is) a senior executive at a bank that has been tied to laundering money for terrorists, operating sham CIA front accounts and recently was called by a Federal Judge, "a henchman for dictators and their brutal regimes"... The families of victims of 9/11 SUED that bank, along with the Saudi Royals who were accused of using the bank to funnel money to terrorist... In that lawsuit, JAMES BAKER.. George HW Bush's Secretary of STate and close ally of the Bush family, PERSONALLY REPRESENTED THE SAUDIs as their defense lawyer...

Doesn't all of this start to stink??? Am I a nutcase?? Tell me if I am.. I need to hear it.

[NYC]

SOMETHING was about to happen. Its reasonable to conclude that there were people in the Paki ISI that knew a terrorist attack on the US was in the works. IN fact, as 9/11 was actually happening, General Ahmed (the head of Paki ISI) was meeting with Porter Goss and Bob Graham, who are were key intelligence chairmen in the Congress.


Omar Sheik http://www.wincoast.com/forum/showthread.php?t=453

Those are pretty good ideas BMAN

[SmokedYourDSM]

Bman, though i call many conspiracy theorists raving lunatics because they just cut and paste whats been around for a million years(ie: remote controlled planes) you my friend are on a roll...
FDR needed Pearl Harbor.
Bush needed 9/11.
its apples to apples..
thanks for coming up with well, thought out ideas that make sense,
rather than posting some bullshit story about our gov. using a remote control to fly a plane into a tower..

[Professor]

Bman, I agree with you. for example: Arafat might not have been involved in ALL terorist attacks on Israel, but he certainly had knowledge and allowed many to happen. Saudi Arabia was no different.

[TrustButVerify]

I also have been following Bmans progress on this theory and I must say that I also support his theory. It seems the more he digs up the deeper the rabbit hole goes.

One thing I don't understand is why the American public is so accepting of Bush being in bed with the Saudi's. Indeed, where IS the outrage?

I personally think Atta & gang were working on some "off the books" deal with the CIA and they pulled a fast one. But then again it seems there was lots of advance knowledge (insider trading, EOM postings, Willie Brown getting flight warnings, etc.). So I guess I'm still a little in the grey.

Damn I just wish Bush didn't black out those pages about the Saudi's - what a crook.

[NYC]

Here's another piece in the ISI - Taliban story that also has falling by the wayside

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=KUNDUZ+pakistan+ISI+flights&btnG=Google+Search

It's a well established fact that the ISI was the major supporter of the Taliban. Remember the secret Kunduz flights during the Afghanistan war?

[Leonidas]

and why aren't they pushing for an invasion of Saudi Arabia?

Seems to me there is FAR MORE EVIDENCE linking the Saudi Government to the hijackers than there ever was linking Saddam to Al Qaeda..


So , why is their hero walking around holding hands with the Saudi Government?? Or for that matter, the Paki government as well.. which is equally linked to Al Qaeda, Osama AND the 9/11 hijackers??



1. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan both had more ties to Al Qaeda than Iraq.

2. There are some elements of the Saudi Royal family with Al Qaeda ties. There are some elements of the Pakistan intelligence community with Al Qaeda ties.

This is common knowledge between all political, military, and intelligence circles in the United States. This is not something that a paranoid freak like BMAN that calls our soldiers Nazis and thinks Bush plotted Sept. 11th has somehow "uncovered".

It blows my mind that even an intelligent guy like Professor would agree with this lunatic. The rest of you clueless idiots I can understand. But Professor? Unbelievable.

The reality of the situation is that our country is not omniscient and we do not have limitless power. We have to work with the allies we have even if 90% of the countries population hates us. If you want to go invading another nuclear power and Mecca, then start your own political party and run on that platform. Because there sure as hell isn't a political party in their right mind that would suggest either one right now.

[SmokedYourDSM]

1. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan both had more ties to Al Qaeda than Iraq.

2. There are some elements of the Saudi Royal family with Al Qaeda ties. There are some elements of the Pakistan intelligence community with Al Qaeda ties.

This is common knowledge between all political, military, and intelligence circles in the United States. This is not something that a paranoid freak like BMAN that calls our soldiers Nazis and thinks Bush plotted Sept. 11th has somehow "uncovered".

It blows my mind that even an intelligent guy like Professor would agree with this lunatic. The rest of you clueless idiots I can understand. But Professor? Unbelievable.

The reality of the situation is that our country is not omniscient and we do not have limitless power. We have to work with the allies we have even if 90% of the countries population hates us. If you want to go invading another nuclear power and Mecca, then start your own political party and run on that platform. Because there sure as hell isn't a political party in their right mind that would suggest either one right now.

uhm, yeah... so, its "in the air". but not to all. I didn't know. Bman started something that educated me, as well as probably many others viewing this thread. Hell he even had me research the topic so I would understand it more. And formulate my own ideas off his. And not spew out pointless crap like you seem to do. He was showing proof of the allegations, rather than dribbeling em out with no facts like most do. I happen to enjoy this discussion, if you dont, fuck off :mad_05:

[involved]

Untill 911 most of us we're in la la land,took me a while to wake up.We are living with a global political system that is broken and corrupted,you just happen to live with the godfather.I worry the Bush administration will push for Patriot Act II.
I'm telling you man...the Moderates are starting to wake up. Some of us (see:me) kept pushing the fucking snooze button though.

[knightroar]

uhm, yeah... so, its "in the air". but not to all. I didn't know. Bman started something that educated me, as well as probably many others viewing this thread. Hell he even had me research the topic so I would understand it more. And formulate my own ideas off his. And not spew out pointless crap like you seem to do. He was showing proof of the allegations, rather than dribbeling em out with no facts like most do. I happen to enjoy this discussion, if you dont, fuck off :mad_05:


:add09:

if I could green you again, I would. I owe you one for this. :add09:

poor troll didn't even see it coming.

[involved]

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July

French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital

Anthony Sampson
Thursday November 1, 2001
The Guardian

Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.

The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".

The American hospital in Dubai emphatically denied that Bin Laden was a patient there.

Washington last night also denied the story.

Private planes owned by rich princes in the Gulf fly frequently between Quetta and the Emirates, often on luxurious "hunting trips" in territories sympathetic to Bin Laden. Other sources confirm that these hunting trips have provided opportunities for Saudi contacts with the Taliban and terrorists, since they first began in 1994.

Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Whether the allegations about the Dubai meeting are confirmed or not, the wider leaks from the French secret service throw a worrying light on the rivalries and lack of coordination between intelligence agencies, both within the US and between western allies.

A familiar complaint of French intelligence is that collaboration with the Americans has been essentially one-way, with them happy to receive information while giving little in return.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html

1. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan both had more ties to Al Qaeda than Iraq.

2. There are some elements of the Saudi Royal family with Al Qaeda ties. There are some elements of the Pakistan intelligence community with Al Qaeda ties.

This is common knowledge between all political, military, and intelligence circles in the United States. This is not something that a paranoid freak like BMAN that calls our soldiers Nazis and thinks Bush plotted Sept. 11th has somehow "uncovered".

It blows my mind that even an intelligent guy like Professor would agree with this lunatic. The rest of you clueless idiots I can understand. But Professor? Unbelievable.

The reality of the situation is that our country is not omniscient and we do not have limitless power. We have to work with the allies we have even if 90% of the countries population hates us. If you want to go invading another nuclear power and Mecca, then start your own political party and run on that platform. Because there sure as hell isn't a political party in their right mind that would suggest either one right now.

[Bman]

The January 2002 letter from George Wolfe, then the US Treasury's deputy general counsel, says Mr bin Mussalim "has been providing indirect investment services for al-Qaeda, investing funds for bin Laden, and making cash deliveries on request to the al-Qaeda organisation".

The letter links him to the now defunct Bank Al-Taqwa and its founder, Youssef Nada. Both have been named by the US and United Nations as providers of terrorist finance.
The existence of the letter has been previously reported by some news organisations, but Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic status was not emphasised.

According to the book, Mr bin Mussalim was found dead in his residence in Lausanne last June, a month after reports of the US Treasury letter first emerged.



WELL WELL WELL.. isnt' that mysterious!!!!


Note that Mr. Mussalim.. the suspected terrorist finacier with the Saudi Diplomatic papers (mentioned above) was linked to the BANK AL TAQWA...

which was under investigation in Switzerland for financing Al Qaeda... Several other terrrorists and sympathizers have been linked to Al Taqwa as well


Interesting story out of Switzerland earlier this month...

Note that the article linking the Saudi Diplomat to Al Taqwa and terrorism came out on April 28th, 2005

a little over a month later, the Houston Chronicle, on June 2, 2005, ran this short bit in its Around the World column:


SWITZERLAND



Terrorism funds inquiry unresolved



BERN - Swiss authorities have halted a 3 1/2-year investigation into a now-defunct Muslim-run financial firm that the United States suspected was helping fund the al-Qaida terrorist network. Swiss authorities did not provide details on why the investigation into Al-Taqwa Management Organization was halted. The company has been under investigation since shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.





Boy.. SOMEONE STEPPED IN TO HALT THAT INVESTIGATION IN A HURRY.. EH??

LOL

[Cali/Yank]

Well Bman, you probably already know this, but I agree 100% behind your statements regarding the Saudi Family.

But since they do hold the keys to the oil we helped discovered, and develop, maybe there is a behind the scenes wrangling to straighten them out. If not who knows.

[Bman]

Well Bman, you probably already know this, but I agree 100% behind your statements regarding the Saudi Family.

But since they do hold the keys to the oil we helped discovered, and develop, maybe there is a behind the scenes wrangling to straighten them out. If not who knows.



What I continue to see, however, is evidence of the INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY in the terrorism ballgame

Notice how this guy , Mussalim had Saudi Diplomatic papers.. that's something typically given to intelligence agents as a cover...

notice how the guy also showed up "dead" a month after he was named in the US Treasury papers....


notice how someone had the "pull" to halt that 3 1/2 year investigation in Switzerland... seemingly overnight....

[Bman]

WELL WELL WELL.. isnt' that mysterious!!!!


Note that Mr. Mussalim.. the suspected terrorist finacier with the Saudi Diplomatic papers (mentioned above) was linked to the BANK AL TAQWA...

which was under investigation in Switzerland for financing Al Qaeda... Several other terrrorists and sympathizers have been linked to Al Taqwa as well


Interesting story out of Switzerland earlier this month...

Note that the article linking the Saudi Diplomat to Al Taqwa and terrorism came out on April 28th, 2005

a little over a month later, the Houston Chronicle, on June 2, 2005, ran this short bit in its Around the World column:


SWITZERLAND



Terrorism funds inquiry unresolved



BERN - Swiss authorities have halted a 3 1/2-year investigation into a now-defunct Muslim-run financial firm that the United States suspected was helping fund the al-Qaida terrorist network. Swiss authorities did not provide details on why the investigation into Al-Taqwa Management Organization was halted. The company has been under investigation since shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.





Boy.. SOMEONE STEPPED IN TO HALT THAT INVESTIGATION IN A HURRY.. EH??

LOL


Bump

[Bman]

Well, well , well.. what do we have here

While Bush strolls through the daisies, holding hands with the Saudi Princes, we continue to find out that not only do the Saudi's FUND these guys.. but they set them up with paperwork as well

BTW, that is why Mohammad Atta and his gang were "off limits" to the FBI before 9/11,..... turns out they were (like this guy) carrying Saudi diplomatic papers.. That is the allegation in Daniel Hopsicker's book, "Welcome to Terrorland"


Copyright 2005 The Financial Times Limited
Financial Times (London, England)

April 28, 2005 Thursday
London Edition

Al-Qaeda suspect 'had envoy's passport' TERROR FINANCING:

By STEPHEN FIDLER

LONDON


A Swiss-based businessman accused by the US Treasury of providing financial help to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda carried a Saudi diplomatic passport, according to copies of documents contained in a book published today in Paris.

The documents include a letter from the US Treasury to the Swiss authorities, which says that al-Qaeda and its leader received financial assistance from the businessman, Ali bin Mussalim, "as of late September 2001". They also include a copy of Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic passport.

The disclosures, contained in Al-Qaeda Will Conquer (Al-Qa'ida Vaincra), by the author Guillaume Dasquie, will be uncomfortable reading for the Saudi government, which has disputed any suggestions of official complicity in the attacks of September 11 2001.

The January 2002 letter from George Wolfe, then the US Treasury's deputy general counsel, says Mr bin Mussalim "has been providing indirect investment services for al-Qaeda, investing funds for bin Laden, and making cash deliveries on request to the al-Qaeda organisation".

The letter links him to the now defunct Bank Al-Taqwa and its founder, Youssef Nada. Both have been named by the US and United Nations as providers of terrorist finance.

The existence of the letter has been previously reported by some news organisations, but Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic status was not emphasised.

According to the book, Mr bin Mussalim was found dead in his residence in Lausanne last June, a month after reports of the US Treasury letter first emerged.

The book draws attention to Mr bin Mussalim's role as intermediary in negotiations over the Euros 4.3bn (Dollars 5.56bn, Pounds 2.9bn) Sawari 2 contract, signed in 1994 between the French and Saudi governments to supply frigates to the Saudi navy and for which it says he received Euros 50m in commissions.

Mr bin Mussalim's role in controversial financial dealings goes back to the early 1980s, when US prosecutors accused him and others of attempts to corner the silver market.

Other documents cited in the book include a flight manifest of the so-called bin Laden flight, in which members of the bin Laden family were flown out of the US in the days after the September 11 attacks.

The manifest shows 29 people aboard the flight that flew to Le Bourget airport from Boston on September 20, after originating in Los Angeles and then flying to Orlando and Washington Dulles airport. This contradicts the number cited in the report of the 9/11 Commission published last year, which said there were 26 people aboard.

The manifest shows the aircraft flew on from Le Bourget to Geneva and Jeddah



Lest people forget who TRULY was behind Bin Laden..



It was W's hand holding buddies.. the SAudis...

[Bman]

The Bin Laden's have long been rumored to be acting on behalf of the Saudi Government in covert intelligence operations.

Frontline reported that the Bin Laden family played a role as couriers of communications and money between George H.W Bush and the Iranian government during the Iran/Contra affair.

Here's more information to support the role of the Bin Ladens as agents of the Saudi Government. I would assume this would include Osama, as well.

Remember, BIN LADEN FAMILY PASSPORTS were also found with the terrorist, Ramzi Binalshibh (the money man behind 9/11) when he was arrested in Pakistan. You can read about that here

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/18/attack/main522380.shtml


also

Sunday, December 05, 2004

Bin Laden's Diplomatic Passports

I know journalists should not bury the lead, but I was looking for a second source to verify what Mike Scheuer told me on the record. Now that I have found one, I find it astonishing to find, in a Google search, that it has not been reported yet, at least where I can find it. (If it is out there, it still bears repeating):

All the Binladen's living in the United States were granted Saudi diplomatic passports in 1996. Didn't matter if they were students, working in shady "charities" or just hanging out. They all got Saudi passports. In 1998, when the FBI's New York office actually sought to investigate some of the Binladen family's activities in this country because of suspicions of ties to terrorism, the State Department forced them to shut down the entire operation. Because the bin Laden's were "diplomats" and as such enjoyed diplomatic immunity, making such investigations illegal. Talk about going Through the Looking Glass. It may explain why all the Binladens were able to extricate themselves from the United States so quickly, with only cursory investigations, after 9/11. There could be no interrogations of diplomats by the FBI. That certainly cuts down on the questioning and background checks and speeds one's exit.

So there you have it. One more small piece of a very large puzzle. What is most unnerving is the lack of ability to investigate the family's activities here. It is not clear to very many people that the entire clan has cut off its contact with Osama. While Osama is always portrayed as a renegade, family ties, not to mention religious and political sympathies, ofter outweigh edicts given from a discredited and waning government officials.

On another note, the New America Foundation and The New York University Center on Law & Security put on an interesting conference on Thursday called "Al Qaeda 2.0: Transnational Terrorism After 9-11." There were several thought-provoking exchanges and presentations among the cast of leading usual suspects, as well as some refreshing and new faces. But one theme was noticeably absent: Any discussion at all of terror finance, financial operations or any sense of the financial architecture of terrorist movements. An interesting void, and one explained in one of the few exchanges on the topic as being unworthy of significant study because terror attacks cost very little money. There are many reasons why this is not true, including the fact that the groups still need money to operate. And, while each attack may seem to take relatively little money, the years of training, establishing safe houses, recruiting, observation and preparation for attacks, all add considerably to the cost. The conventional wisdom is that 9-11 cost only $500,000 and the Madrid attack last year cost less than $20,000. True. But if you add in the total cost of the training in Afghanistan and elsewhere, the time and effort spent in preparing the attacks over time, the money to recruit, train and build a cell, the cost is considerably more. There are other reasons this approach makes me unhappy, but that may be fodder for another time.

Another question that stumped one panel, or rather was dismissed, was the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in al Qaeda. To my amazement, it was waved off as an insignificant tangent by the panelists, none of whom seemed prepared to respond at all. So it is clear the gaps in our knowledge are great


http://www.douglasfarah.com/blog/2004/12/bin-ladens-diplomatic-passports.html

[Bman]

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July

French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital


The first time I read this story, I doubted that it was/is credible.

Now, however.. I don't know.. it certainly could be.

[Bman]

Surprise! Amazingly, it wasn't Saddam and Ahmadinejad behind 911..

It was this guy

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/050426_050502/050427_FinemanBush_wide.hlarge.jpg

Don't worry, Prince.. your secret is secure with me!! Oh.. and THANK YOU!


9/11 hijackers tied to Saudi government, Graham says in book

By Frank Davies, Knight Ridder | September 5, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers had a support network in the United States that included agents of the Saudi government, and the Bush administration and FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship, Senator Bob Graham wrote in a book to be released Tuesday.

The discovery of the financial backing of the two hijackers "would draw a direct line between the terrorists and the government of Saudi Arabia, and trigger an attempted coverup by the Bush administration," the Florida Democrat wrote.

And in Graham's book, "Intelligence Matters," obtained by The Miami Herald yesterday, he makes clear that some details of that financial support from Saudi Arabia were in the 27 pages of the congressional inquiry's final report that were blocked from release by the administration, despite the pleas of leaders of both parties on the House and Senate intelligence committees.

Graham also disclosed that General Tommy Franks told him on Feb. 19, 2002, four months after the invasion of Afghanistan, that many important resources -- including the Predator drone aircraft crucial to the search for Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda leaders -- were being shifted to prepare for a war against Iraq.

Graham, who was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee from June 2001 through the buildup to the Iraq war, voted against the war resolution in October 2002 because he saw Iraq as a diversion that would hinder the fight against Al Qaeda terrorism.

He oversaw the Sept. 11 investigation on Capitol Hill with Representative Porter Goss. According to Graham, the FBI and the White House blocked efforts to investigate the extent of official Saudi connections to two hijackers.

Graham wrote that the staff of the congressional inquiry concluded that two Saudis in the San Diego area, Omar al-Bayoumi and Osama Bassan, who gave significant financial support to two hijackers, were working for the Saudi government.

Bayoumi received a monthly allowance from a contractor for Saudi Civil Aviation that jumped from $465 to $3,700 in March 2000, after he helped Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhdar -- two of the Sept. 11 hijackers -- find apartments and make contacts in San Diego, before they began pilot training.

Saudi officials have denied ties to the hijackers or Al Qaeda plots to attack the United States.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/09/05/911_hijackers_tied_to_saudi_government_graham_says _in_book?mode=PF

[Bman]

Well, well , well.. what do we have here

While Bush strolls through the daisies, holding hands with the Saudi Princes, we continue to find out that not only do the Saudi's FUND these guys.. but they set them up with paperwork as well

BTW, that is why Mohammad Atta and his gang were "off limits" to the FBI before 9/11,..... turns out they were (like this guy) carrying Saudi diplomatic papers.. That is the allegation in Daniel Hopsicker's book, "Welcome to Terrorland"



I TOLD YA SO, TWO YEARS AGO

[Bman]

Recall that Mohamed Atta and Marwan al Shehi had two major run in's with Florida law enforcement (or should have) while they were training in Venice, FL

The first involved their abandonment of a rented aircraft on the RUNWAY OF MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

They up and left it there.. SImply walked away... A plane.. on the runway of a large international airport

This incident was never followed up.. No one thought to question them. Officials who rented them the plane said that Atta claimed it "stalled" there, but they said there was nothing wrong with the plane when they went to pick it up

The second incident was when Atta and Shehi were caught "practicing take offs and landings" in the dark, at an airport north of Venice, that was CLOSED.

There were no controllers there..no lights. .no nothing.. .It was closed

A local cop observed them and tracked them down but the issue just died.

Both of these incidents were in Hopsickers book and were confirmed by transcripts and sworn testimony in the Moussaoui trial.

One has to ask two questions:

Why would these men do these things if they were keeping a low profile, training for their jihadi suicide mission?

Secondly, why were they "off limits" to law enforcement?


ANSWER: Atta and al Shehi were here in the US as agents of the Saudi Government ... NOT TO commit a terrorist act, but like dozens of other Saudi pilots, to TRAIN AS PILOTS FOR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES like DRUG RUNNING and ARMS SHIPMENTS. They would be working for the CIA and Saudi Intelligence.

The problem is, Atta and 3 other pilots double crossed their handlers and instead committed Jihad.

They were able to operate in the US , basically untouched for this reason.

And that , is my conclusion after 5 years of studying this matter intensely

The Paki government was involved as well, as they too are a part of the global drug trafficking cabal... especially with regards to heroin... 90% of which comes out of Afghanistan

[Bman]

The Paki government was involved as well, as they too are a part of the global drug trafficking cabal... especially with regards to heroin... 90% of which comes out of Afghanistan


Anyone ever wonder why NATO doesn't simply spray pesticide on the opium crop in Afghanistan and cut off al Qaeda and the Taliban's source of funding, right at the source?

Figure it out.

[Bman]

9/11 is a distant memory, I suppose.

[Redbrother]

I don't think it's lack of interest. Really your posts here are non-debatable.

[Bman]

I don't think it's lack of interest. Really your posts here are non-debatable.



Thanks bro

I was thinking more along the lines of outrage

No one seems to care a damn about Osama or who was behind 9/11 anymore

There's no interest at all.

[Shipwrx]

Thanks bro

I was thinking more along the lines of outrage

No one seems to care a damn about Osama or who was behind 9/11 anymore

There's no interest at all.


combination of things.

Oversaturation #1

Doubt that Osama was behind it at all exists (like it or not) #2

Disgust that he hasn't been captured and or frustration about it #3

More as I think of them

[Bman]

Copyright 2005 The Financial Times Limited
Financial Times (London, England)

April 28, 2005 Thursday
London Edition

Al-Qaeda suspect 'had envoy's passport'
TERROR FINANCING:

By STEPHEN FIDLER

LONDON


A Swiss-based businessman accused by the US Treasury of providing financial help to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda carried a Saudi diplomatic passport, according to copies of documents contained in a book published today in Paris.

The documents include a letter from the US Treasury to the Swiss authorities, which says that al-Qaeda and its leader received financial assistance from the businessman, Ali bin Mussalim, "as of late September 2001". They also include a copy of Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic passport.

The disclosures, contained in Al-Qaeda Will Conquer (Al-Qa'ida Vaincra), by the author Guillaume Dasquie, will be uncomfortable reading for the Saudi government, which has disputed any suggestions of official complicity in the attacks of September 11 2001.

The January 2002 letter from George Wolfe, then the US Treasury's deputy general counsel, says Mr bin Mussalim "has been providing indirect investment services for al-Qaeda, investing funds for bin Laden, and making cash deliveries on request to the al-Qaeda organisation".

The letter links him to the now defunct Bank Al-Taqwa and its founder, Youssef Nada. Both have been named by the US and United Nations as providers of terrorist finance.

The existence of the letter has been previously reported by some news organisations, but Mr bin Mussalim's diplomatic status was not emphasised.

According to the book, Mr bin Mussalim was found dead in his residence in Lausanne last June, a month after reports of the US Treasury letter first emerged.

The book draws attention to Mr bin Mussalim's role as intermediary in negotiations over the Euros 4.3bn (Dollars 5.56bn, Pounds 2.9bn) Sawari 2 contract, signed in 1994 between the French and Saudi governments to supply frigates to the Saudi navy and for which it says he received Euros 50m in commissions.

Mr bin Mussalim's role in controversial financial dealings goes back to the early 1980s, when US prosecutors accused him and others of attempts to corner the silver market.

Other documents cited in the book include a flight manifest of the so-called bin Laden flight, in which members of the bin Laden family were flown out of the US in the days after the September 11 attacks.

The manifest shows 29 people aboard the flight that flew to Le Bourget airport from Boston on September 20, after originating in Los Angeles and then flying to Orlando and Washington Dulles airport. This contradicts the number cited in the report of the 9/11 Commission published last year, which said there were 26 people aboard.

The manifest shows the aircraft flew on from Le Bourget to Geneva and Jeddah


This is the article from April of 2005 that started the thread.. I'm bumping it up for a reread.

[Ono]

Thanks Bman.

[Shipwrx]

I'll not go into and I appologise for mentioning it but to be honest I was always under the impression they had never really nailed down the real finance source.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Clue
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/images/174.jpg

[Mars S]

and of course.. that is why they loaded up that plane right after 9/11.. to get those Saudi diplomats and other "dignitaries" out of the US before the FBI could get to them

Bman

Not according to Richard Clarke they didn't.

[Mars S]

Anyone ever wonder why NATO doesn't simply spray pesticide on the opium crop in Afghanistan and cut off al Qaeda and the Taliban's source of funding, right at the source?

Figure it out.

Who says the opium crop in Afghanistan is the source of funding for AQ and the Talis?
There's been opium in Afghanistan for over a century and as I recall, the Talis were trying to root it out.

[ELMIZMO]

Anyone ever wonder why NATO doesn't simply spray pesticide on the opium crop in Afghanistan and cut off al Qaeda and the Taliban's source of funding, right at the source?

Figure it out.

not to nitpick, but the pestacides will only kill the bugs. i think you meant herbacide.

sorry, didn't mean to but in, please proceed.

[TopDeck]

The last 15 mins of this Greg Palast documentary discusses the Bush connections to the Saudi's in detail ...

"This hour long documentary follows the award-winning reporter-sleuth Greg Palast on the trail of the Bush family, from Florida election finagling, to the Saudi connection, to the Bush team's spiking the FBI investigation of the bin Laden family and the secret State Department plans for post-war Iraq. "

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

[Bman]

not to nitpick, but the pestacides will only kill the bugs. i think you meant herbacide.

sorry, didn't mean to but in, please proceed.

Right you are.. LOL.. My bad

[Bman]

Who says the opium crop in Afghanistan is the source of funding for AQ and the Talis?
.

Republican Congressman Mark Kirk (http://www.house.gov/kirk/), for one.. There's been lots of others as well


http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-124320-5344r.htm


Heroin traffic finances bin Laden

Dec. 6, 2004

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Osama bin Laden is using cash from the Afghanistan heroin market to finance his life on the run, paying bodyguards and buying off warlords in Pakistan, says a congressman who has visited the region.

Rep. Mark Steven Kirk, Illinois Republican, said in an interview that bin Laden's al Qaeda terror organization is reaping $28 million a year in illicit heroin sales. Some of the money is funding bin Laden's fugitive status as he pops back and forth between Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal areas and Afghanistan's eastern mountain regions.

Mr. Kirk, who won passage of legislation in November to overhaul the U.S. terrorist rewards program, said post-September 11 initiatives have cut off the terror leader's traditional sources of money — a family fortune and Islamic charities.

"We now know al Qaeda's dominant source of funding is the illegal sale of narcotics," said Mr. Kirk, a member of the House Appropriations foreign operations subcommittee.

The congressman made an extensive fact-finding trip to Afghanistan last January, where he met with military-intelligence officials.

Mr. Kirk said that, while bin Laden has lots of allies in the Waziristan tribal lands east of Kabul, Afghanistan, he does not speak the native tongues and cannot trust everyone as his entourage moves from place to place.

"He is a foreigner in a strange land," Mr. Kirk said. "He must have money to buy off the local warlords. Operating a clandestine, heavily armed organization takes money and running narcotics is the natural way."

A Pentagon adviser on drug policy said Mr. Kirk is "on target."

"We know of individuals in Afghanistan who continue to fund al Qaeda with drug proceeds," the Pentagon adviser said.

The congressman believes the way to catch bin Laden is to cut off his money. "We have to nail the drug-lord financing first," he said. "Once you hit his income, you head off his ability to pay local warlords."

This is where Mr. Kirk's legislation comes in. The Counter-Terrorist and Narco-Terrorist Rewards Program Act authorizes the State Department for the first time to make rewards to people who inform on drug lords.

Bin Laden's major supplier, U.S. authorities say, is Haji Bashir Noorzai, a former Taliban financier who smuggles heroin from the Kandahar area to al Qaeda in Pakistan.

The Pentagon adviser said Noorzai helped finance al Qaeda when it operated with the Taliban. The alliance continues to this day. In return for money, Noorzai gets al Qaeda operatives who move his drugs offshore.

The legislation, which Mr. Bush will sign once Congress finishes work on the fiscal 2005 spending bill later this month, also authorizes the payment of goods, such as tractors or trucks instead of cash to informants. The idea is that illiterate rural Afghans or Pakistanis will find more value in farm equipment than in huge sums of money. News of the new rewards will be broadcast on radio stations in Afghanistan.

The bill, co-sponsored by Rep. Henry J. Hyde, Illinois Republican, and Rep. Tom Lantos, California Democrat, also lets Mr. Bush raise the reward on bin Laden and other terror fugitives from $25 million to $50 million.

"If we are able to take out a couple of kingpins, suddenly bin Laden would have to miss a payment to his warlords," Mr. Kirk said. He said the U.S. obtains "credible reports" on al Qaeda and drugs from "people who have contact with the outer ring of the bin Laden organization."

Bush administration officials are reluctant to publicly discuss bin Laden's drug ties. This is because more members of Congress may press the Pentagon to do something it does not want to do: order troops to begin attacking drug convoys. Commanders say their 20,000 troops already have a full plate of missions battling Taliban and al Qaeda insurgents.

Instead, the administration has announced a series of new counternarcotics programs that will greatly rely on Afghan police and soldiers to stem the burgeoning poppy crop that, in turn, yields record amounts of heroin.

Afghanistan's yearly opium production is estimated at $2 billion.

One piece of evidence of al Qaeda drug connection arose last winter, when the U.S. Navy intercepted small boats in the Arabian Sea off the coast of Pakistan and seized large quantities of heroin.

Mr. Kirk said the U.S. military interrogated four crewmen and learned they were al Qaeda operatives taking the drugs to the United Arab Emirates. In Quetta, Pakistan, a kilo of heroin fetches $2,000; in the United Arab Emirates, the same quantity brings $10,000.

"This was an attempt by al Qaeda to develop a downstream retail market at which they could increase their profits five times," he said.

Bin Laden has remained at large since he holed up in the mountain region of Tora Bora in December 2001 and then slipped across the border into Pakistan as the Taliban regime fell.

Earlier this year, Pakistan for the first time in history sent thousands of troops into the tribal lands to attack militants. But after a sweep through South Waziristan, the general in charge declared Nov. 26 that bin Laden is not there.

"[Bin Laden] requires his own protection, and the kind of security apparatus that he is supposed to have around him, that gives a very big signature," Lt. Gen. Safdar Hussain told Reuters. "There is not an inch of South Waziristan or the tribal area which we have not swept time and again, and if he was here in the tribal areas, I can assure you that he wouldn't have escaped my eyes and ears."

But the Pentagon adviser cautioned that "just because they throw up their hands and say he's not here, don't believe he's not."

"You've got to remember that area has strong support for bin Laden."


http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-124320-5344r.htm

[Bman]

The New York Sun

January 19, 2007 Friday


Qaeda's Successful Recruiting Efforts

STEVEN STALINSKY




In response to reports that recruitment into America's armed forces is at its lowest level in years, Secretary of Defense Gates has called for increasing the Army and Marine corps by 92,000 troops over the next five years.

On the other hand, Al Qaeda and other Islamist terrorist groups seem to have an unlimited pool of recruits. This is because their followers are brainwashed - through messages that they receive in schools and mosques as well as on television - that if they give their lives for jihad, they will be rewarded in the afterlife with 72 black-eyed virgins.

As Sheik Ahmad Qattan explained on Saudi Iqra TV on January 3, 2005, "The martyrdom seeker … these heroes who stand in line and await their turn … to sacrifice themselves for the sake of their God's religion … seek the … longest life in the heavens. They want to join their brothers, the martyrs, and to reap martyr's rewards. … He is married off to 72 black-eyed women."

Al Qaeda in Iraq, an organization led by the late Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, published a statement addressed to America on January 26, 2005, which discussed what is promised to its recruits: "We have men who love death as you love life. Our fallen [go to] heaven, and yours - to hell. While your reinforcements come from the Jews and the Christians, ours come from the Blessed and Lofty Allah. … Oh the gardens [of Eden], prepare yourselves; oh black-eye [virgins], approach. ... The martyrs' wedding is at hand." A year and a half later, Zarqawi's clan celebrated his wedding in Jordan after he was killed.

During the second intifada, the Palestinian Arab press frequently reported the death of suicide bombers by printing wedding announcements and "bridal" pictures.

One announcement read, "In the name of Allah, all merciful, all the compassionate, do not consider who died for the sake of Allah as dead. Rather as alive, the Martyr, Ali-Khadha Al-Yassini, who was wedded to the blackeyed virgin in the Garden of Eternity on the morning of September 16, 2001. Congratulations to him for his wedding."

A writer for the official Palestinian Arab daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, reported the death of another "groomsman" on October 4, 2001: "The mother of Wail Awad, did not plan on holding a second wedding, after his marriage on August 10, 2001, to his fiancee in a simple ceremony. But yesterday was Wail's real wedding day, and the angels of the Merciful married him … to ‘the black-eyed,' as all around [them] rose the cries of joy."

The mother of a Hezbollah "martyr" Bassel Ala' Al-din gave an interview to Al-Manar TV on May 22, 2005. "Bassel had a wish," she said. "Whenever I told him I wanted to marry him off, he would say, ‘Yes, mother, you'll marry me off like this in paradise.' And indeed, the martyr Bassel got married in paradise. I congratulate the black-eyed virgins who took Bassel from me."

Earlier this week, the Global Islamic Media Front posted on Islamist Web sites a 20-page book titled "The Desire of the Souls for the Women of Paradise." The book includes excerpts from medieval Islamic sources focusing on the characteristics of the virgins who await those who enter paradise after becoming martyrs.

Chants of "Oh, Muslim, arise, there is a black-eyed virgin in paradise. … We will return to Kabul. … Oh, blessings of the all-merciful, the Sunna after the Koran, there is a black-eyed virgin in paradise" were heard on the Islamist Web site Tajded.net, which posted footage of Taliban military commander Mullah Dadallah's visit to an Al Qaeda base in Afghanistan on December 28.

The video, produced by Al-Sahab Productions, then referred to the September 11, 2001, attacks and the black-eyed virgins who were awarded to the hijackers: "Oh, bin Laden, there is a black-eyed virgin in paradise. … The plane flew above the clouds, and their tower was destroyed in two strikes. … The first strike awoke the sleeping, and the second divided the people into two camps. … On the one hand, the camp of Bush and the leaders of darkness, and on the other hand, the camp of the sheik, with their heads held high. … Whoever sold his life and his property will buy the blessing of the black-eyed virgins." Islamist Web sites, mosques, and some programming on Arab TV are all helping to recruit young Muslims to jihad by celebrating the 72 black-eyed virgins, nothing stipulates that they must martyr themselves only in the Middle East. According to their narrative on September 11, all the hijackers in America got to enjoy their "wedding day."

This should serve as a reminder of what we are facing daily in the war on terror.

Mr. Stalinsky is the executive director of the Middle East Media Research Institute.

[Bman]

Who's funded Al QAeda?

The Saudis

Who funded the Taliban?

The Saudis


Who is now funding the insurgency in Iraq?

The Saudis

and who funded George Bush???

The Saudis.

[Mars S]

Well, I can believe that local terrorists are using drug money but I find it hard to believe that Osama is what with him being dead and all.
You'd think with all that drug money he'd produce a video or something and let his mommy know he's alright.

[orrery]

Bman, you never cease to convince me of the need to nuke Islam / Mecca.

[Bman]

Well, I can believe that local terrorists are using drug money but I find it hard to believe that Osama is what with him being dead and all.
You'd think with all that drug money he'd produce a video or something and let his mommy know he's alright.

Well, I provided you a link to the article about the Congressman who went there and investigated it for himself.

It's all there in Post # 65.

If you choose not to believe them, I can understand that as well. He may not be credible.

[Bman]

Bman, you never cease to convince me of the need to nuke Islam / Mecca.

I don't really share your idea on how to "solve" the problem , but I do believe that until we RECOGNIZE SAUDI ARABIA as both the philosophical and financial HEART of radical Wahhabi Islam, of the sort preached by Osama, Islamic Jihad, etc. then it is impossible to even begin to come up with a solution that could work

I don't believe our CURRENT leadership in the White House WANTs to "solve" the problem, however. They benefit more by having the problem in existence.