View Full Version : Bloody anarchy reigns in Iraq
VERITAS
03-30-2005, 09:13 PM
Amidst the chaos inflicted on the Iraqi people by the unprovoked invasion and permanent occupation, the kidnapping and killing (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/30/iraq.main/) continues.
Groder Mullet
03-30-2005, 09:22 PM
You must be beating your shit over bad news in Iraq, eh Veritas??
LadyLiberty
03-30-2005, 09:45 PM
Theres plenty of good news coming out of Iraq.. Some just choose to ignore that fact...
VERITAS
03-30-2005, 09:55 PM
Some just choose to ignore that fact...
It is understandable that those who were duped by the fraudulent pretexts now have difficulty accepting the consequences. Nevertheless, whether they are able to confront it or not, the bloody chaos continues.
Groder Mullet
03-30-2005, 10:27 PM
It is understandable that those who were duped by the fraudulent pretexts now have difficulty accepting the consequences. Nevertheless, whether they are able to confront it or not, the bloody chaos continues.
The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
PIGFUCKBINLADEN
03-30-2005, 10:28 PM
Theres plenty of good news coming out of Iraq.. Some just choose to ignore that fact...
EXACTILLY!!!!!!!!!!
pixikill
03-30-2005, 10:44 PM
and 2 months after the "vote" and their 'democraticly elected govt' still isnt in.
america has to say when, right????
The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
If this is true, then reason would suggest that the US should begin to scale back our troop presence. If "more and more" Iraqi's are handling the security on their own, then "less and less" should be required of the US forces, right?
When the number of US troops in Iraq begins to decline substantially and consistently, THEN I WILL INDEED REPORT THAT GOOD NEWS with clapping smiley faces :happy_01: and much celebration.
That's the good news that I'm waiting for
Bman
Johnny5
03-30-2005, 11:00 PM
I just jizzed my pants again...damnit I don't know what I'm going to do if this continues...all that bad news makes me hard :add09:
Groder Mullet
03-30-2005, 11:29 PM
If this is true, then reason would suggest that the US should begin to scale back our troop presence. If "more and more" Iraqi's are handling the security on their own, then "less and less" should be required of the US forces, right?
When the number of US troops in Iraq begins to decline substantially and consistently, THEN I WILL INDEED REPORT THAT GOOD NEWS with clapping smiley faces :happy_01: and much celebration.
That's the good news that I'm waiting for
Bman
Its scheduled to begin within a month or two.
knightroar
03-30-2005, 11:34 PM
I just jizzed my pants again...damnit I don't know what I'm going to do if this continues...all that bad news makes me hard :add09:
it's just a normal process of puberty. just think, next year you'll be 13 and be a real teenager.
Its scheduled to begin within a month or two.
Well thats good news then, if true
last heard, the story was slightly different than what you're saying
U.S. May Bring Troops Home if Violence Low
U.S. forces in Iraq could begin coming home in significant numbers if insurgent violence is low through the general elections scheduled for the end of the year, a top general said Wednesday.
A larger and more capable insurgency, setbacks in the efforts to develop Iraq security forces, or missed deadlines by the transitional government could delay any significant drawdown, said Air Force Lt. Gen. Lance Smith.
Smith, the deputy commander of U.S. Central Command, which has military authority over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, commented in an interview with reporters at the Pentagon.
"(If) the elections go O.K., violence stays down, then we ought to be able to make some recommendations ... for us to be able to bring our forces home," Smith said.
Smith is the latest senior general to express conditional optimism about improvements in Iraq since the Jan. 30 elections. Previously, officials had spoken very little about prospects for withdrawal of the tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq.
In the last month, the rate of insurgent attacks on U.S., coalition and Iraqi personnel and civilians has dropped from an average of between 50 and 60 per day to between 40 and 45, defense officials say. U.S. forces are also suffering casualties at a lower rate.
Smith said that if that trend continues, Iraqi security forces should be able to handle the load, with American forces pulling back to function primarily as a rapid-response force in the event the Iraqis get in trouble.
"I think the answer to that is, yes, every indication is that they (Iraqis) will be able to handle this level of threat in the not to distant future," Smith said.
He said Gen. George Casey, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, will be coming up with plans early this summer for a possible drawdown.
Smith credited the security improvements primarily to the U.S. and Iraqi efforts in capturing and killing insurgents. But he also acknowledged that the Iraqi government has reached out to some Sunni Muslim groups that have been involved with the insurgency or worked against U.S. interests.
He mentioned in particular the Muslim Ulema Council, a group of leading Sunni religious leaders that is also known as the Association of Muslim Scholars.
"The Sunni have recognized boycotting the elections was a mistake," Smith said. "They clearly would like to figure out how they can get back in and participate."
But vast problems remain. Insurgents under Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and former leaders of Saddam Hussein‘s government remain active. Smith said there are some signs the groups, despite their different ideologies, are coordinating activities. Also, Baghdad, the Iraqi capital, only averages 12 hours of power a day, according to the State Department.
The insurgency has forced the United States to keep at least 138,000 troops in Iraq since the invasion two years ago. About 145,500 U.S. troops are in Iraq now, with about several thousand who were sent to assist in security for the Jan. 30 elections expected to go home in the coming weeks.
The semi-permanent force numbers 138,000 troops, or 17 brigades. More than 22,000 allied, non-Iraqi troops are also in the country.
Iraqi security forces have grown to more than 151,000 soldiers and police who have received training and equipment, Smith said. The quality and capabilities of these forces vary widely, and absenteeism among the police is a significant problem.
Early postwar plans for Iraq anticipated far fewer U.S. troops to be in the country by now, but the strength of the insurgency caught the U.S. military off guard.
http://www.obviousnews.com/breakingnews/stories/obviousnews-551000.html
Bman
The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
UPDATE. .its 18 months later
Can you update us on this?
Theres plenty of good news coming out of Iraq.. Some just choose to ignore that fact...
can you give us a "for instance", perchance?
The US Administration will probably try to spin this story as evidence that "LESS INSURGENTS ARE DYING IN SUICIDE ATTACKS", which.. technically speaking, it IS
:add09:
Associated Press Worldstream
September 22, 2006 Friday 12:26 AM GMT
Iraqi insurgents using unwitting kidnap victims in suicide attacks, government says
By DAVID RISING, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD Iraq
Insurgents are now using unwitting kidnap victims as suicide bombers seizing them, booby-trapping their cars without their knowledge, then releasing them only to blow up the vehicles by remote control, the Defense Ministry said.
The Iraqi announcement the latest development in the deadly war waged by the insurgency came as widespread lawlessness swept the capital Thursday with kidnappings, deadly attacks on police, the discovery of more mutilated death squad victims and a brazen daylight bank heist by men dressed as Iraqi soldiers.
It was unclear from the Defense Ministry's statement whether the insurgents are using kidnap victims because they are having trouble finding recruits for suicide missions. Suicide car bombs are responsible for 7 percent of the total Iraqi deaths this year down considerably from 25 percent of the overall deaths in the last eight months of 2005, according to an Associated Press count.
A U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity said he was aware of such incidents but was unable to provide further details. American officials have said in the past that insurgents often tape or handcuff a suicide driver's hands to a car, or bind his foot to the accelerator pedal, to ensure that he did not back out at the last minute or fail due to being shot. The remains of such hands and feet have been found at blast sites.
Although roadside bombs are the main weapon used by insurgents, suicide car bombers are often their most effective one designed to maximize casualties and sow fear among the population. According to the Washington-based Brookings Institution, since the fall of Saddam Hussein to Sept. 17 there have been 343 suicide car bombings involved in attacks causing multiple deaths around Iraq.
The Defense Ministry said in its statement that in recent bombings, first "a motorist is kidnapped with his car. They then booby-trap the car without the driver knowing. Then the kidnapped driver is released and threatened to take a certain road."
The kidnappers then follow the car and when the unwitting victim "reaches a checkpoint, a public place, or an army or police patrol, the criminal terrorists following the driver detonate the car from a distance."
The U.N. Assistance Mission in Iraq's Human Rights office warned that the number of Iraqi civilians killed in July and August hit 6,599, a record high number that is far greater than initial estimates had suggested and points to the grave sectarian crisis gripping the country.
It offered a grim assessment across a range of indicators, reporting worrying evidence of torture, unlawful detentions, the growth of sectarian militias and death squads, and a rise in "honor killings" of women.
The United Nations' chief anti-torture expert warned Thursday that torture may now be more widespread than it was under Saddam's regime, with militias, terrorist groups and government forces disregarding rules on the humane treatment of prisoners.
"What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," Manfred Nowak said in Geneva.
More than a dozen apparent victims of death squads were found in the capital Thursday, many showing signs of torture.
A U.S. soldier was killed Thursday while operating in the restive Anbar province west of Baghdad, the military announced. Earlier in the day, the military said another American soldier was killed in northern Baghdad on Wednesday when a roadside bomb exploded next to the vehicle in which he was traveling.
Despite the bloodshed, coalition forces moved ahead with plans to turn security responsibilities over to Iraqi troops by the end of 2007.
Italy formally handed over the reins of the relatively quiet Dhi Qar province in the south. It was the second of Iraq's 18 provinces to be turned over to local control, and paves the way for most of Italy's 1,600 troops to return home by the end of the year a campaign promise by new Prime Minister Romano Prodi.
The overall U.S. strategy calls for coalition forces to redeploy to larger bases and let Iraqis become responsible for their security in specific regions. The larger bases can act in a support or reserve role to Iraqi troops should they need help. No timeframe has been set for the eventual drawdown of troops from Iraq.
In the Baghdad bank robbery, an AP reporter saw about 15 armed men in three pickup trucks pull up outside a branch of the Rafidain Bank in the Karrada area, a downtown commercial neighborhood.
The well-organized robbery appeared to witnesses to be a regular salary pickup. Two or three of the men entered the bank, then five people exited with bags, accompanied by a man in civilian clothes who appeared to be carrying documents. They got back into their vehicles and drove off.
No shots were heard, but police 1st Lt. Mahmoud Khayyoun said a bank manager was injured and the assailants got away with an unknown amount of cash.
Associated Press reporters Patrick Quinn, Qais al-Bashir, Muhieddin Rashad and Bushra Juni contributed to this report from Baghdad.
mez31
09-22-2006, 10:40 AM
The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
Yeah they are progressing alright...they are progressing more and more into the quagmire called HELL!
VERITAS
10-29-2006, 11:15 PM
(3/30/05) The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
Its scheduled to begin within a month or two.
Gee, 19 months later! So let's see how's it going.
Hmmmm. Well, there is this: ( http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-10-29-missing-weapons_x.htm?csp=34)
The Pentagon cannot account for 14,030 weapons — almost 4% of the semiautomatic pistols, assault rifles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and other weapons it began supplying to Iraq since the end of 2003, according to a report from the office of the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction.
The missing weapons will not be tracked easily: The Defense Department registered the serial numbers of only about 10,000 of the 370,251 weapons it provided — less than 3%.
The Pentagon spent $133 million on the weapons...
http://www.infowars.com/headline_photos/April/bush_fumble.jpg
Mystery
10-29-2006, 11:53 PM
Veritas, you should change the name of this thread. What is going on over there isn't anarchy, it is a direct result of government involvment and the association gives anarchy a bad reputation. :)
pixikill
10-30-2006, 12:12 AM
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/28/knCARTOON_gallery__470x345,0.jpg
ive posted this elsewhere, but i have to post it here too.....
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/28/knCARTOON_gallery__470x345,0.jpg
ive posted this elsewhere, but i have to post it here too.....
oh man.. that's a classic!
:add09:
pixikill
10-30-2006, 01:54 AM
oh man.. that's a classic!
:add09:innit, though?;)
VERITAS
10-30-2006, 08:03 AM
Veritas, you should change the name of this thread. What is going on over there isn't anarchy, it is a direct result of government involvment and the association gives anarchy a bad reputation. :)
Very well. I shall follow pixikill's initiative in soliciting revisionist nomenclature.
However, a rose by any other name...
Historical reference subjects the pifflewits to their own arrogant bushwa, so such a illuminating resurrection as this thread (by Bman) - albeit ill-yclept, does expose those perennial founts of folly, the braying chorus to the ongoing disaster.
Live and learn.
Blood blood everywhere. Odd people.
rectar
10-30-2006, 11:01 PM
In Islamic Iraq country Yanat : Ministry of Information the 30-10-2006.
The Islamic Iraq country statements.
Ministry of Information .
30-10-2006
The Islamic Iraq country / a two hoops fall polish between state burglarize and Baghdad.
Praise be to God and the infidelity suppressor and the infidels championed the fighters, shameful the hypocrites and the defectors and the prayer and the peace on the honorable leader, and on family and the fighters gentlemen escorted, as for after. :
Lose a two hoops fall (t) polish two dependents mobilized Al-Saleebi (élihtlal) between the Baghdad state and a state burglarize, promise to destruction in complete ; and a death all in them ,. The one important military leaders mobilized Al-Saleebi (élihtlal) (tqan) and that in at (élhadeea) ten and 6 (shoual) be a child the Saturday day rotted forty minutes 1427 concurring 28 10 2006. / / (m) forget, the praise and the aphid..
And God praise.
{ (é) and (y) (éaee) and no.}
Ministry of Information / the official speaker for the Islamic Iraq country.
---------------------
Excellency Iraq Islamic / a operation a opposite a consecration (istshhadeea) chanted north of the Baghdad state in the viewing region from the vehicles the crusaders.
In the name of God the Gracious Merciful .
The heat forget (r) Aalmin (wallaa) (wallam) on represented Mahed and on entireties family and friends..
As for after.:
An irrigation, a custodian from Islamic Iraq country leu ; and what operated souls in and purified and shone and overflowed longing for struggling brothers. Which preceded Wan Al-Ansari (djana) father (yba) accepted God of it , suicidal 6 (shoual) departed in the Saturday day, 1427 concurring of the 28 10 2006 / / (m) ; to plunge in the car bomb . A thought abounded north of the Baghdad state in the viewing region from the vehicles the crusaders on a line and poured God on hands the infidelity thrones; had revealed the blessed operation of a death five soldiers. Crusaders and a mechanism destruction diversified (hmr) thoroughly and an others injury from them in a cub eloquent ask God , accepts brother in the martyrs place of sinning (yàleeee) and in be high , and. Preceded to them from God charity forget, the praise (walma) ..
And God praise.
{ (é) and (y) (éaee) and no.}
Ministry of Information / the official speaker for the Islamic Iraq country.
The source.:
(The daybreak center for the media.)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.
VERITAS
10-31-2006, 07:21 AM
Blood blood everywhere. Odd people.
If you shoot them, do they not bleed?
The New York Times
March 12, 2007 Monday
Late Edition - Final
In New Tactic, Militants Burn Houses in Iraq
By DAMIEN CAVE; Reporting was contributed by Khalid al-Ansary, Hosham Hussein, Ali Adeeb and Khalid W. Hassan from Baghdad, an Iraqi employee of The New York Times from Diyala Province, and Jim Rutenberg from Bogota, Colombia.
BAGHDAD, March 11
Sunni militants burned homes in a mixed city northeast of Baghdad on Saturday and Sunday, forcing dozens of families to flee and raising the specter of a new intimidation tactic in Iraq's evolving civil war, Iraqi officials and witnesses said.
Militants also continued their campaign against Shiite pilgrims on Sunday, striking as the pilgrims returned home from the southern city of Karbala after observances there for the Arbaeen holiday over the weekend. The worst attack, a car bombing, killed at least 19 people in Baghdad as they were riding home from the south in a pickup truck.
Attackers burned both Sunni and Shiite homes in a neighborhood of Muqdadiya, a city of about 200,000 in Diyala Province, about 60 miles from Baghdad. There were differing reports about how many houses were affected. A security official in Diyala said that at least 30 houses were completely burned, including occupied and abandoned buildings, while a Sunni Arab politician from the area said that only six houses were destroyed. Some witnesses said as many as 100 houses were set on fire.
Victims from both sects blamed the Islamic State of Iraq, an umbrella organization for Sunni extremists that has taken over several other towns in the area. Residents said the group had recently demanded money, weapons and oaths of support from the local populace.
They said the burnings were intended to scare people into giving in or running away. Dozens of families escaped the city, either left homeless by the attacks or terrified that they would be next.
''I left everything behind because I didn't want to contribute to harming other Iraqis,'' said Abu Muhammad Khailani, a Sunni, who said he fled to a Shiite village for protection.
''I know why they want the money and weapons,'' he said. ''They will kill innocent people and do whatever it takes to reach their goals.''
The attacks reignited fears that Iraq is being hollowed out by efforts in some areas to drive out those who do not support an extremist sectarian agenda. Many mixed neighborhoods of Baghdad have already been transformed into homogenous enclaves, with Shiites and Sunnis issuing death threats to the minority sect and even those who intermarry or have cross-sectarian friendships.
Two other explosions in Diyala Province, both near Baquba, killed at least five people and wounded 13 on Sunday.
Even before the house burnings over the weekend, Diyala had become a cauldron of daily violence, with American and Iraqi forces fighting a growing Sunni threat that has often overwhelmed the province's Shiite leaders. Residents report that in some villages, the Islamic State of Iraq brazenly flies flags that declare loyalty to Abu Omar Al-Baghdadi, the group's leader, in what appears to be both a warning and a taunt to the group's opponents.
American military officials have said they are increasingly concerned about the area's slide into chaos. The commander for northern Iraq, Maj. Gen. Benjamin R. Mixon, said this week that he had already shifted additional troops to the province and asked for extra reinforcements.
On Thursday, Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top American commander in Iraq, said Diyala would ''very likely'' get more troops as part of an increase concentrated in Baghdad.
The Baghdad police said the 19 Shiite pilgrims were killed Sunday in the mostly Shiite area of Karada when a car bomb exploded next to their truck. They were on their way home from Karbala, where they observed Arbaeen, which marks the end of a 40-day mourning period to commemorate the killing of Imam Hussein, the Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
Witnesses said a silver Hyundai sedan parked on the side of the road exploded when the truck passed. Mustafa Mahdi Sahed, the truck's driver, who survived without serious injury, said the blast tore through his passengers, turning their cooking pans into shrapnel and bloodying the posters they had carried to honor the martyr Hussein. Sitting on a curb by his destroyed vehicle hours after the blast, he said he had driven the pilgrims home from Karbala without charge. In contrast, he said he had heard that suicide bombers or their families get paid to kill.
''Is it worth it to sell Iraqi lives for $200 or $300?'' he said.
In the same neighborhood on Sunday, a roadside bomb killed one person. And just west of Sadr City, the sprawling Shiite district in northeast Baghdad, a suicide bomber on a minibus set off his explosives near a restaurant, killing at least 10 other people and wounding eight, an Interior Ministry official said.
In Adhamiya, a nearby Sunni neighborhood, a remotely piloted American reconnaissance aircraft crashed. An American military spokesman said the drone was later recovered intact. He would not say whether it had been shot down.
An Iraqi police official said the aircraft had been brought to a precinct in the Shiite Shaab neighborhood east of Adhamiya, where American troops collected it.
The United States military also said in statements that three American soldiers died Sunday. A roadside bomb in Baghdad killed one soldier, wounding two others. Another soldier was killed in an explosion in Salahuddin Province. In northern Iraq, a soldier died in a noncombat-related incident that the military said it was investigating.
Sunday's bombs in Shiite areas capped an especially bloody week for Shiite pilgrims. On Tuesday, at least 150 of them, many traveling by foot, were killed by insurgents in a variety of attacks as they converged on Karbala. In the deadliest attacks, more than 100 people were killed in Hilla by back-to-back suicide bombers who lured pilgrims with cakes.
On Sunday, the police in Hilla said they had arrested four men believed to be involved in planning attacks last week. Officials said that the men were from the neighborhood where the attack occurred, and that one of them had been found driving a white Oldsmobile that had been seen carrying the two suicide bombers.
In Mosul, a bomb exploded in the lobby of the Iraqi Islamic Party, a major Sunni political party, on Saturday night, killing three people, the police said.
A spokeswoman for the German Foreign Ministry said Sunday that the German government was investigating reports of two Germans kidnapped in Iraq. She said a special group dedicated to threats against German citizens abroad was scrutinizing a videotape posted Saturday on the Internet, which showed a woman begging for help in German as a young man she identifies as her grown son looks on.
''I am here threatened by these people, they will kill my son in front of my eyes, then they will kill me if the German forces do not pull out of Afghanistan,'' she said, according to a news agency translation.
The authenticity of the videotape could not be independently verified.
Also on Sunday, Iranian, Iraqi and American officials cautiously praised Saturday's regional security meeting in Baghdad.
In Tehran, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, an Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said that his country was willing to continue the dialogue and that ''we support any efforts that will bring Iraq out of its current problems,'' The Associated Press reported.
Iraq's foreign minister, Hoshyar Zebari, told CNN that officials in Tehran needed to ''match their statement of support for the Iraqi government with actions.''
President Bush, traveling in South America on Sunday night, reinforced that idea. Speaking of Iran and Syria, he said, ''If they really want to help stabilize Iraq, there are things for them to do, such as cutting off weapons flows and the flow of suicide bombers into Iraq.''
He continued: ''There are all kinds of ways to measure whether they're serious about the words they utter. We, of course, welcome those words.''
Rightwingnut
03-12-2007, 10:53 AM
I have to ask this, and I am not aiming it at you Bman, its a general question.
Combining this tactic with the Secterian violence, how are the Muslim tactics any different than the Israeli tactics so decried by the supposed "anti-zionists"? Why is there no outrage from that sector?
The New York Times
March 12, 2007 Monday
Late Edition - Final
In New Tactic, Militants Burn Houses in Iraq
By DAMIEN CAVE; Reporting was contributed by Khalid al-Ansary, Hosham Hussein, Ali Adeeb and Khalid W. Hassan from Baghdad, an Iraqi employee of The New York Times from Diyala Province, and Jim Rutenberg from Bogota, Colombia.
BAGHDAD, March 11
Sunni militants burned homes in a mixed city northeast of Baghdad on Saturday and Sunday, forcing dozens of families to flee and raising the specter of a new intimidation tactic in Iraq's evolving civil war, Iraqi officials and witnesses said.
Militants also continued their campaign against Shiite pilgrims on Sunday, striking as the pilgrims returned home from the southern city of Karbala after observances there for the Arbaeen holiday over the weekend. The worst attack, a car bombing, killed at least 19 people in Baghdad as they were riding home from the south in a pickup truck.
Attackers burned both Sunni and Shiite homes in a neighborhood of Muqdadiya, a city of about 200,000 in Diyala Province, about 60 miles from Baghdad. There were differing reports about how many houses were affected. A security official in Diyala said that at least 30 houses were completely burned, including occupied and abandoned buildings, while a Sunni Arab politician from the area said that only six houses were destroyed. Some witnesses said as many as 100 houses were set on fire.
Victims from both sects blamed the Islamic State of Iraq, an umbrella organization for Sunni extremists that has taken over several other towns in the area. Residents said the group had recently demanded money, weapons and oaths of support from the local populace.
They said the burnings were intended to scare people into giving in or running away. Dozens of families escaped the city, either left homeless by the attacks or terrified that they would be next.
''I left everything behind because I didn't want to contribute to harming other Iraqis,'' said Abu Muhammad Khailani, a Sunni, who said he fled to a Shiite village for protection.
''I know why they want the money and weapons,'' he said. ''They will kill innocent people and do whatever it takes to reach their goals.''
The attacks reignited fears that Iraq is being hollowed out by efforts in some areas to drive out those who do not support an extremist sectarian agenda. Many mixed neighborhoods of Baghdad have already been transformed into homogenous enclaves, with Shiites and Sunnis issuing death threats to the minority sect and even those who intermarry or have cross-sectarian friendships.
Two other explosions in Diyala Province, both near Baquba, killed at least five people and wounded 13 on Sunday.
Even before the house burnings over the weekend, Diyala had become a cauldron of daily violence, with American and Iraqi forces fighting a growing Sunni threat that has often overwhelmed the province's Shiite leaders. Residents report that in some villages, the Islamic State of Iraq brazenly flies flags that declare loyalty to Abu Omar Al-Baghdadi, the group's leader, in what appears to be both a warning and a taunt to the group's opponents.
American military officials have said they are increasingly concerned about the area's slide into chaos. The commander for northern Iraq, Maj. Gen. Benjamin R. Mixon, said this week that he had already shifted additional troops to the province and asked for extra reinforcements.
On Thursday, Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top American commander in Iraq, said Diyala would ''very likely'' get more troops as part of an increase concentrated in Baghdad.
The Baghdad police said the 19 Shiite pilgrims were killed Sunday in the mostly Shiite area of Karada when a car bomb exploded next to their truck. They were on their way home from Karbala, where they observed Arbaeen, which marks the end of a 40-day mourning period to commemorate the killing of Imam Hussein, the Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
Witnesses said a silver Hyundai sedan parked on the side of the road exploded when the truck passed. Mustafa Mahdi Sahed, the truck's driver, who survived without serious injury, said the blast tore through his passengers, turning their cooking pans into shrapnel and bloodying the posters they had carried to honor the martyr Hussein. Sitting on a curb by his destroyed vehicle hours after the blast, he said he had driven the pilgrims home from Karbala without charge. In contrast, he said he had heard that suicide bombers or their families get paid to kill.
''Is it worth it to sell Iraqi lives for $200 or $300?'' he said.
In the same neighborhood on Sunday, a roadside bomb killed one person. And just west of Sadr City, the sprawling Shiite district in northeast Baghdad, a suicide bomber on a minibus set off his explosives near a restaurant, killing at least 10 other people and wounding eight, an Interior Ministry official said.
In Adhamiya, a nearby Sunni neighborhood, a remotely piloted American reconnaissance aircraft crashed. An American military spokesman said the drone was later recovered intact. He would not say whether it had been shot down.
An Iraqi police official said the aircraft had been brought to a precinct in the Shiite Shaab neighborhood east of Adhamiya, where American troops collected it.
The United States military also said in statements that three American soldiers died Sunday. A roadside bomb in Baghdad killed one soldier, wounding two others. Another soldier was killed in an explosion in Salahuddin Province. In northern Iraq, a soldier died in a noncombat-related incident that the military said it was investigating.
Sunday's bombs in Shiite areas capped an especially bloody week for Shiite pilgrims. On Tuesday, at least 150 of them, many traveling by foot, were killed by insurgents in a variety of attacks as they converged on Karbala. In the deadliest attacks, more than 100 people were killed in Hilla by back-to-back suicide bombers who lured pilgrims with cakes.
On Sunday, the police in Hilla said they had arrested four men believed to be involved in planning attacks last week. Officials said that the men were from the neighborhood where the attack occurred, and that one of them had been found driving a white Oldsmobile that had been seen carrying the two suicide bombers.
In Mosul, a bomb exploded in the lobby of the Iraqi Islamic Party, a major Sunni political party, on Saturday night, killing three people, the police said.
A spokeswoman for the German Foreign Ministry said Sunday that the German government was investigating reports of two Germans kidnapped in Iraq. She said a special group dedicated to threats against German citizens abroad was scrutinizing a videotape posted Saturday on the Internet, which showed a woman begging for help in German as a young man she identifies as her grown son looks on.
''I am here threatened by these people, they will kill my son in front of my eyes, then they will kill me if the German forces do not pull out of Afghanistan,'' she said, according to a news agency translation.
The authenticity of the videotape could not be independently verified.
Also on Sunday, Iranian, Iraqi and American officials cautiously praised Saturday's regional security meeting in Baghdad.
In Tehran, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, an Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said that his country was willing to continue the dialogue and that ''we support any efforts that will bring Iraq out of its current problems,'' The Associated Press reported.
Iraq's foreign minister, Hoshyar Zebari, told CNN that officials in Tehran needed to ''match their statement of support for the Iraqi government with actions.''
President Bush, traveling in South America on Sunday night, reinforced that idea. Speaking of Iran and Syria, he said, ''If they really want to help stabilize Iraq, there are things for them to do, such as cutting off weapons flows and the flow of suicide bombers into Iraq.''
He continued: ''There are all kinds of ways to measure whether they're serious about the words they utter. We, of course, welcome those words.''
I have to ask this, and I am not aiming it at you Bman, its a general question.
Combining this tactic with the Secterian violence, how are the Muslim tactics any different than the Israeli tactics so decried by the supposed "anti-zionists"? Why is there no outrage from that sector?
Sectarian warfare or religious warfare (ie Israel versus Palestine) typically degenerates into a very brutish, bloody and violent conflict. That's my opinion based on a few things I've studied.
This is because both sides view themselves as morally superior and the other side as "evil"... their very existence an affront to "God himself". When one visionalizes an enemy as the embodiment of "evil", it makes it quite a bit easier to treat him as if he were not human.
This kinds of conflicts are the worst of all to mediate. Only an ARROGANT FOOL would insert a peacekeeping force into a sectarian or religious war.
Rightwingnut
03-12-2007, 11:23 AM
This kinds of conflicts are the worst of all to mediate. Only an ARROGANT FOOL would insert a peacekeeping force into a sectarian or religious war.
Or someone trying to force Gods hand.
Ponder
03-12-2007, 12:13 PM
Based on everything I've read about this town, it is a mostly Sunni area in the Sunni triangle. These militants are of the Islamic extremist variety.
Early on, they gained the cooperation of the Sunni groups throughout the region. Most likely they gained this cooperation through offers of protection, monetary incentives, intimidation, or any combination of these.
Lately though, the Sunni groups seem to have had enough. Increasingly, the Sunni tribes are cooperating with the coalition forces. Stories such as this one should highlight that fact, but it seems that the author is instead highlighting the violence without offering up any sort of analysis as to what this means. Of course, maybe that is the best way. Maybe analysis should be left to others.
This story is one about retribution for Sunnis cooperating with the coalition. I think that's a good sign that the extremists are losing support, but it also means that there's still a long way to go, obviously.
I don't see this as a sectarian fight anymore than I see our fight against AQ a sectarian conflict between Muslims and Christians. I see it as a fight against terrorism. AQ may see it differently, but I have no problem not seeing eye to eye with the sort of people responsible for suicide bombings targeting civilians.
Based on everything I've read about this town, it is a mostly Sunni area in the Sunni triangle. These militants are of the Islamic extremist variety.
Early on, they gained the cooperation of the Sunni groups throughout the region. Most likely they gained this cooperation through offers of protection, monetary incentives, intimidation, or any combination of these.
Lately though, the Sunni groups seem to have had enough. Increasingly, the Sunni tribes are cooperating with the coalition forces. Stories such as this one should highlight that fact, but it seems that the author is instead highlighting the violence without offering up any sort of analysis as to what this means. Of course, maybe that is the best way. Maybe analysis should be left to others.
This story is one about retribution for Sunnis cooperating with the coalition. I think that's a good sign that the extremists are losing support, but it also means that there's still a long way to go, obviously.
I don't see this as a sectarian fight anymore than I see our fight against AQ a sectarian conflict between Muslims and Christians. I see it as a fight against terrorism. AQ may see it differently, but I have no problem not seeing eye to eye with the sort of people responsible for suicide bombings targeting civilians.
So what do you think about the Saudis saying they will support AQ, if the us withdraws?
truthbtold
03-12-2007, 12:26 PM
So what do you think about the Saudis saying they will support AQ, if the us withdraws?
when did the saudi's stop supporting AQ???
when did the saudi's stop supporting AQ???
Good point
Ponder
03-12-2007, 12:31 PM
So what do you think about the Saudis saying they will support AQ, if the us withdraws?
I've heard Saudi say they will support Sunnis. I haven't seen where they said they will support AQ.
I've heard Saudi say they will support Sunnis. I haven't seen where they said they will support AQ.
You just posted below that they were one and the same, didn't you?
You said that its not a sectarian warfare in Iraq.. but rather us versus "the terrorists"
??????
Ponder
03-12-2007, 12:39 PM
You just posted below that they were one and the same, didn't you?
You said that its not a sectarian warfare in Iraq.. but rather us versus "the terrorists"
??????
Maybe you should read that again.
Maybe you should read that again.
So what you're saying is there are run of the mill sunni insurgents, and then there are AQ as well??
what are the non-AQ sunni insurgents fighting for, if its not sectarian?
Ponder
03-12-2007, 01:07 PM
So what you're saying is there are run of the mill sunni insurgents, and then there are AQ as well??
what are the non-AQ sunni insurgents fighting for, if its not sectarian?
They're not fighting over differences in their religious beliefs.
They're not fighting over differences in their religious beliefs.
That's interesting, given that you can be killed in Iraq just for having the wrong name (Omar, sunni... or Ali, Shia)
Rightwingnut
03-12-2007, 01:20 PM
They're not fighting over differences in their religious beliefs.
Actually thats exactly why they are fighting.
This ran yesterday in the Daily Telegraph (UK)
who can spin this? Who would dare try?
Iraq four years on
By Colin Freeman, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 2:20am GMT 12/03/2007
Mohammed Mumtaz al-Duleimi shows me the ring on his third finger, set with a heavy stone in a dark-red colour that is known in Iraq as gazelle's blood. For the superstitious Shias of the south, it is has long been a talisman to bring good luck; Mohammed, a Sunni from Baghdad, now fervently hopes it will do the same for him. Flashed at the Mehdi Army checkpoints that spring up along his daily route to work, it might just convince any suspicious gunman that he is a fellow Shia, and prevent him being executed on the spot.
His disguise goes further, though, than just the ring and the ID card that hides his distinctively Sunni tribal surname. Mohammed has also committed to memory the history of the Shia religion, mastered the tongue-twisting contractions of the southern Iraqi dialects, and knows the right oaths to be heard muttering aloud at the checkpoint, such as "in the name of Hussein [a famous Shia imam], how long are we going to be stuck here?"
Rather like nightclub bouncers quizzing under-age teenagers, though, checkpoint gunmen often ask tricky questions to catch fakers out. "If you say you are a Shia from the south, they will ask you which exact town you come from, and who are the important people there," said Mohammed, 28. "But I have a friend who is a Shia from a town in the south, so we have swapped all this information together. He can now be a Sunni from Baghdad, and I can now be a Shia from the south. It is like a school test, where the result is your life."
Mohammed's brother, Omar, 29, did not have time to swot up. When Iraq's sectarian killings began in earnest in February 2006, following the bombing of the holy Shia shrine at Samarra by al-Qaeda-led Sunni terrorists, he was among the first victims of the wave of Shia retaliation that followed. When the gunmen at a Shia checkpoint saw he was an al Duleimi - one of Iraq's most powerful Sunni tribes - he was dragged from his car, tortured with drills and shot in the head. His mother suffered a stroke from the shock. The family should be able to claim compensation from a special government scheme to help victims of Iraq's sectarian bloodshed, but to this day they are scared to put the paperwork in. "The office there is run by militias, and many people who have gone to put their claims in have been killed," Mohammed said. "It is a game by the government to kill Sunnis."
Instead, he tells me, his family will seek redress via other means - by pursuing the debt the tribal way, in blood. In the case of the al-Duleimi clan to which he belongs, that is no idle threat. A million-strong and immensely wealthy, they are Iraq's answer to the Rockefellers and the Sopranos rolled into one, with a reputation for killing anyone who crosses them.
"If there were law and order here, we would go to the courts, but now it is an eye for an eye, as under the law of our tribe," said Mohammed. "I am not a fighter myself, but there are special people in our tribe who handle these matters." How will they find the right man, I ask, given that his brother's killers were masked and no one witnessed the killing? Mohammed is vague. One possibility is that the Duleimi hit squad will simply kidnap the first Shia militiaman they can find and torture him until he gives them a name, and not necessarily the right one. On such rough justice has the deadly cycle of Shia-Sunni violence in Iraq spun ever faster and ever more out of control.
Mohammed is speaking to me in the room of my Baghdad hotel, a fortress of concrete barriers, checkpoints and AK-47-toting guards. All but a few of The Sunday Telegraph interviews are conducted here these days. Kidnapping by insurgent gangs is still a major hazard for Western journalists in Iraq, although today we are seen less as targets in our own right and more as collateral with which the warring religious militias can make ransom demands. It could not be more different to when I first came here, just after the fall of Saddam in 2003, when even asking which branch of Islam someone followed would produce a bemused stare or a frown. "Why, we are not Shias or Sunnis," would come the reply. "We are Muslims and Iraqis."
Periodic visits since have shown that idealistic attitude crumbling to the point where, back in Baghdad ahead of next week's fourth anniversary of the US-led war, I resolved to find out what has driven a people who once lived largely in peace with one another to embrace sectarian slaughter. In the past 12 months, the United Nations estimates that up to 34,000 Iraqis have been killed in sectarian violence, roughly three times as many as died in the war itself. There is no shortage of background factors: the support of foreign powers such as Iran and Syria for the competing insurgent groups, the failure of the coalition to plan a proper replacement for Saddam's moribund government infrastructure, and the desperation of the poverty-stricken, brutalised people he left behind. Bigoted Sunni groups such as al-Qaeda have also been hell-bent on fomenting sectarian warfare ever since Saddam was deposed, with their relentless car bombings of innocent Shia civilians. Some would say that the real surprise is not how many Iraqis have killed each other, but how many have turned the other cheek - even when it has been smeared, quite literally, in their loved ones' blood.
Even so, the past year has been worse than anything anyone can remember, even during the darkest days of Saddam's reign. The bombing of the Samarra shrine in February last year is looked back on as Iraq's "9/11". Everyone I have met knows someone who has been killed since then, and most know several. Many neighbourhoods in Baghdad, they tell me, are now half-abandoned militia ghettos, where corpses lie uncollected in the streets for days at a time. On our occasional sorties in our bullet-proof car - the only safe means of transport these days - once traffic-clogged streets are now quiet, lined with black mourning banners and pitted every half-mile or so by car bomb craters. Post-war reconstruction and re-investment are on almost permanent hold, with the electricity supply down to one hour in six.
More than a million people have fled the country - mostly the educated, trained and aflluent, whose skills and wealth were so necessary to get the country back on its feet. And every day, as my translator gloomily points out, thousands of those who remain behind wake up angry, embittered and ready to make things worse.
Yet, asked why this has happened, the Iraqis I have met also cite another pivotal event alongside Samarra - the same one that Tony Blair and George W Bush insist has made the past four years worthwhile. The historic first elections of 2005, they say, have been disastrous for the country. Far from ushering in the Middle East's first secular, liberal state, as the West had hoped, they have allowed Islamist parties to take hold, encouraging Iraqis to identify as Sunnis or Shias and opening up 1,500-year-old religious tensions that might otherwise have lain dormant.
"The parties that are running the government now are all Islamists," said Saleh al-Mutlaq, a Sunni who is of the few secular politicians in a parliament otherwise dominated by Shia and Sunni religious power blocks. "All of them are sectarian, and mostly they cannot work together. Instead they pull the country in a sectarian way. The US and British might be proud of our elections, but personally I wish we had an Arab dictatorship which had peace and security, rather than a democracy which works on chaos."
The euphoria of polling day, he points out, eclipsed the fact that the elections were scarcely the informed, rational contest of policies that is supposed to characterise a democracy. Inexperienced in the ways of multiparty politics after decades of totalitarianism, millions of Iraqis voted for the Sunni and Shia religious parties simply because they thought they would go to hell if they didn't. "My own brother told me that the imam in his local mosque told him to vote for the Twaffaq [a Sunni religious party] if he wanted to join Mohammed in the afterlife," said Mr Mutlaq. "And it was the same with the Shias. Their hands would shake with fear if they didn't mark the box for their religious parties."
Political choices were also made in the expectation of jobs for the boys, a legacy of the nepotism that was a hallmark of Saddam's Ba'ath party era. Mithal al-Alusi, another secular Sunni, was convinced he was a hot ticket for prime minister when nearly 100,000 people joined his tiny, underfunded party. When they then scraped just one parliamentary seat, he realised people had only joined up in the belief that a party membership card might come in handy one day.
"We had delegations of sheikhs coming up to lend us their support, but they probably went to every other party as well," he said, stirring coffee in his villa in Baghdad's fortified Green Zone. "They thought they would get some sort of benefits if we got into power. That's the old way, the Ba'ath Party way, and now the Islamists are doing the same."
The result, he says, is that while once the key to power and influence in Iraq was Ba'ath membership, now it is religious affiliation. Sectarianism has become institutionalised in government: the ministries of health, agriculture and the interior are dominated by the Shias, the defence ministry by Sunnis. "When you have religious loyalty first and qualifications second, that means most of the ministers are not competent," added Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish MP. "They put party first, and the country second."
As such, the country's new leaders frequently have neither the power nor the incentive to rein in the militias that have infiltrated the police and army. Yet it is not just the frontline security services that have become vehicles for conflict. In addition, there are the 145,000 armed men who belong to the rapidly expanding "Force Protection Service", which ostensibly guards the public buildings of each ministry. In practice, they are little more than private armies. The ministry of health alone, for example, has at least 12,000 such guards, and hospitals and clinics have become notorious as hang-outs for Shia militants. "We are scared to take our injured for treatment in case the guards attack us," one Sunni woman told me. "Sometimes you even hear of people getting killed when they have come to pick up bodies from the morgues."
Sectarianism is infecting other public services too, often to the point of paralysis. Iraq's public integrity minister, whose job is to tackle Iraq's multi-billion-pound government corruption rackets, is hamstrung by the fact that nearly every complaint he gets is motivated by sectarian malice. A recent police investigation into the rape of a Sunni woman by Shia soldiers got nowhere because it became a political football rather than an alleged sex crime. And last year's Baker report on the future of Iraq also highlighted complaints that some Sunni neighbourhoods of Baghdad were being starved of electricity and refuse services by the Shia-dominated municipal council.
In public, the Shia religious bloc that makes up prime minister Nouri al Maliki's party remains resolutely inclusive, as does its Sunni counterpart, led by Adnan al-Duleimi. Backstage, though, even secular figures such as Mr Alusi are pressured to declare their allegiance, often from both sides of the religious divide. A senior Shia politician asked him to emphasise his Sunni credentials because Shias "needed a good Sunni they could respect", he says. And a hardline Sunni tried to court him on the basis that "the stupidest men on our side" were better than any Shia. "I told him 'Either you get out of my house now, or my security men will throw you out'."
Such is Mr Alusi's concern over Iraq's creeping sectarianism that he has dispensed with parliamentary niceties. During sessions in the chamber he has accused both his Shia and Sunni counterparts of sponsoring sectarian genocide. On a recent TV appearance, he even told the current health minister, an affiliate of the hardline Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, to "go and f*** himself". Such candour does not go down well.
Shortly afterwards, he received a visit from a senior security adviser from another Shia religious party, who gave him a friendly warning "to be careful". But Mr Alusi is used to being a marked man. Two years ago, suspected Sunni extremists attacked his convoy and killed his two sons and a bodyguard. "Can we allow ourselves to be afraid?" he asks. "If that is the case, we might as well go and live in Honolulu." To prove his point, he still goes outside the Green Zone to shop in nearby Karrada, a predominantly Shia neighbourhood. "There is no real problem among the ordinary people," he said. "It is just the Islamic parties - they are stirring it up to stay in power."
So what lies ahead? Right now things look shaky. The "surge" of an extra 21,000 American troops into Baghdad is likely to take months to yield any tangible sign of lasting improvement, and even then, the militiamen who have currently gone on leave will return to try to wreck it. Syria and Iran, meanwhile, despite their presence alongside the US at an Iraqi-hosted diplomatic conference in Baghdad yesterday, have little obvious self-interest in a stable, democratic Iraq. The moment that happens, Mr Alusi points out, their own despotic leaders will be under pressure to produce the same. The only silver lining on the seemingly endless stormclouds, he says, is that the past two years may have provided Iraqis with what he calls a "democratic education". "Before the first elections no Iraqi understood what it meant to vote, it was just something they saw that happened in places like London. But now they see that the parties they voted in did not make an improvement, and perhaps they will turn to the secular ones. It may have been a painful lesson, but perhaps the next election will show a difference in the result."
The possibility that ordinary Iraqis will vote to end the sectarian divide remains the coalition's greatest hope. Perhaps a time will come when Mohammed will no longer need his gazelle's blood ring and his Shia slang, when he will revert to being Mohammed the Iraqi, rather than Mohammed the Sunni. For those bereaved and brutalised over the past four years, however, the seeds of division may have been sown for generations ahead. Right now, peace and reconciliation seem more remote than they did when Saddam's statue fell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=LQI0XZ5YN5XMBQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQ WIV0?xml=/news/2007/03/11/wbaghdad11.xml
Ponder
03-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Actually thats exactly why they are fighting.
What evidence do you have of that?
Ponder
03-12-2007, 01:33 PM
That's interesting, given that you can be killed in Iraq just for having the wrong name (Omar, sunni... or Ali, Shia)
It's about power, not differences in religion.
Ponder
03-12-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't know how to make clear what I'm saying, but their differences are more related to tribalism, than religious beliefs.
I don't know how to make clear what I'm saying, but their differences are more related to tribalism, than religious beliefs.
So its ETHNIC.. not RELIGIOUS
Either way, its SECTARIAN
The New York Times
April 20, 2007 Friday
Late Edition - Final
Car Bombs, and Pain, Define a War With No Place to Hide
By MICHAEL KAMBER; Madeeh Qasim contributed reporting.
BAGHDAD, April 19
Rahid Sabah Abid, a 25-year-old shop owner, left work on Wednesday afternoon and began his homeward journey on a day that seemed then much like any other. He wended his way through the crowded streets of the Shorja market, then boarded one of the minibuses waiting in the Sadriya neighborhood to take him home to his wife and five daughters in nearby Sadr City.
His first hint of trouble was a car racing against traffic toward the line of buses. ''There was no warning,'' he recalled. ''I saw the explosion in front of me and felt the pain in my legs. The bus was on fire and I jumped out, then began to crawl. There were five burning cars with people in them. I shouted for someone to help.''
He recalled the car bombing, one of five bombings that killed at least 171 Iraqis on Wednesday, from a bed in Ali Abi Talib Hospital where he is recovering with one leg broken, the other badly burned.
Around him, the well-worn beds held other Iraqis whose lives had been changed forever in a moment's flash of explosives and steel.
Car bombs have become a near daily occurrence here and one of the defining features in this phase of the Iraq war. They claim the majority of civilian deaths and injuries, and they have become the most intractable challenge to the United States forces as they seek to turn Baghdad into a safe zone where normal life can be resumed.
But in the Ali Abi Talib Hospital, normal still seemed far away. Over several hours on Thursday, as victims told their stories, no doctors or nurses were seen in the wards. Patients said there were only a few doctors for the entire hospital.
Muhammad Ahmed Rahim lay bandaged and bleeding, his face and arms badly burned and shrapnel in his neck. Around 4 p.m. Wednesday, Mr. Rahim was driving his aunt Shukriya Ahmed Rahim and his cousin Adnan Ali through the Baghdad streets in his Opel Salon. As he approached Al Madofer Square, he saw a Toyota pickup truck shoot into the square and pull in front of a tanker truck carrying fuel.
''I saw a flash,'' he said. ''Then I jumped out of my car. I remember the doors were blown off. Shukriya and Adnan stayed in the car.'' His family members say he has asked repeatedly for his cousin and aunt. They will wait until he is stronger to tell him his passengers were killed in the explosion.
In many countries, Rahim Kareem Himet would be lauded as a hero. In Iraq, he lies in a hospital bed with three bullet wounds. Mr. Himet was visiting a friend near Sadriya when the car bomb exploded. He ran to the scene with dozens of other passersby.
''I dragged the wounded away from the fire, I put them on handcarts and pushed them away from the scene,'' he says, his account confirmed by another patient wounded in the attack. ''I found a minibus nearby with no driver, we put 10 wounded in the back and I began to drive them to the hospital.''
As he neared the Babasher police station, about 100 yards from the blast site, soldiers that Mr. Himet says were Americans opened fire. He was wounded and crashed the bus in front of the police station. Iraqi soldiers were afraid to rescue him, he says, for fear the nervous American soldiers would shoot them, too. Bleeding badly, he was eventually taken to the hospital with the other victims he had tried to save.
The Adnan family has no details of precisely what happened to their three sons on Wednesday. What they do know is that two are dead, and the third, 17-year-old Muntada, is in a coma with shrapnel lodged in his skull. Hussein el-Nashmi, a cousin, returned to his house that afternoon to the sound of women wailing.
Passers-by had brought home the broken body of 13-year-old Mudrick, who was dead, as well as Muntada, who was still breathing. Mr. Nashmi rushed Muntada to the hospital, then began the search for the oldest brother, 19-year-old Mortada.
''We know he is dead,'' Mr. Nashmi said. ''We have searched every hospital in the city. We can't figure out which body is his. They are all burned so badly.'' Downstairs, a refrigerated trailer was parked in the hospital yard, its floor slick with blood, 18 blackened bodies sprawled about.
''I hope I die soon,'' Mr. Nashmi said. ''I don't want to see more friends die, or see my father and brother die. It will be better if I die first.''
Then he set off to pick through the carbonized bodies one more time.
VERITAS
04-20-2007, 05:13 PM
Theres plenty of good news coming out of Iraq.. Some just choose to ignore that fact...
EXACTILLY!!!!!!!!!!
The fact that more and more, Iraqi's are assuming the security of their own country? Do you ignore that? The place is making progress whether you choose to ignore it or not.
I just jizzed my pants again...damnit I don't know what I'm going to do if this continues...all that bad news makes me hard :add09:
Its [Bman's "the number of US troops in Iraq declining substantially and consistently"] scheduled to begin within a month or two. (3-30-05)
I don't see this as a sectarian fight anymore than I see our fight against AQ a sectarian conflict between Muslims and Christians.
A sample from this thread alone. Imagine all the Bushi'ite ravings, full of sound and fury indicating bushwa..
http://ilef.ankara.edu.tr/akildefteri/gorsel/dosya/1047122996bush_hands_up.jpg
Mars S
04-20-2007, 05:38 PM
It is understandable that those who were duped by the fraudulent pretexts now have difficulty accepting the consequences. Nevertheless, whether they are able to confront it or not, the bloody chaos continues.
It is doubtful that anyone is duped besides you who attempts to project tragic events in Baghdad as occurring across the whole of the nation. How deluded and deceitful.
spotdogg
04-20-2007, 06:09 PM
It is doubtful that anyone is duped besides you who attempts to project tragic events in Baghdad as occurring across the whole of the nation. How deluded and deceitful.
I think YOU are dupe that you think Iraq is a peaceful place...Stop drinking Bush's brew willya...Y'know, everyone here was kinda getting along what with aftermath of the Vtech shootings and all...And you are just kind of a downer..
VERITAS
04-20-2007, 06:40 PM
I think YOU are dupe that you think Iraq is a peaceful place...Stop drinking Bush's brew willya...Y'know, everyone here was kinda getting along what with aftermath of the Vtech shootings and all...And you are just kind of a downer..
The last throes of the dead ender apologists necessitates their blathering denial, even now. I doubt that it extends to their booking their summer holidays in Kirkuk.
It is doubtful that anyone is duped besides you who attempts to project tragic events in Baghdad as occurring across the whole of the nation. How deluded and deceitful.
There's certainly widespread violence in Anbar province, Baghdad, Diyala Province, Mosul, Kirkuk and Basra.
The only safe place in Iraq is in the three tiny provinces that make up the Kurdish Regional Authority. Coincidentally (or not), there are no coalition soldiers in these three provinces.
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