Rome

[Inquisitor]

Whilst Ive been fasinated by 'modern' history for quite some time, I have just started to explore Roman history in all its glory.

I thought someone may be able to point me in the best direction for great websites/books on Rome - in particular ones focuisng on the miltary both between the Marius and Constantine reforms (and after).

Also, just curious if any of you have seen this 'ROME' TV series? - its about to air here in Australia and I assume that its already aired in the US (no doubt a decade ago, that seems to be the normal lag)..

[Mr. Drags]

Whilst Ive been fasinated by 'modern' history for quite some time, I have just started to explore Roman history in all its glory.

I thought someone may be able to point me in the best direction for great websites/books on Rome - in particular ones focuisng on the miltary both between the Marius and Constantine reforms (and after).

Also, just curious if any of you have seen this 'ROME' TV series? - its about to air here in Australia and I assume that its already aired in the US (no doubt a decade ago, that seems to be the normal lag)..
the series was quite good. historical fiction but it presents some nice points to the late Republic.

Regarding books, are you looking for primary or secondary sources?

[Camp]

Whilst Ive been fasinated by 'modern' history for quite some time, I have just started to explore Roman history in all its glory.

I thought someone may be able to point me in the best direction for great websites/books on Rome - in particular ones focuisng on the miltary both between the Marius and Constantine reforms (and after).

Also, just curious if any of you have seen this 'ROME' TV series? - its about to air here in Australia and I assume that its already aired in the US (no doubt a decade ago, that seems to be the normal lag)..

I just started reading Edward Gibbon "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire." It is seven volumes and covers the reign of Augustus (AD 93) through the fall of Constaninople in 1453. I have already learned where we get the term commode from. The rule of Commodus was most destructive. Great detail and enjoyable reading for a work written over 200 years ago. The copy I am reading is a library book published in 1896 and still on the lender shelf.

[Tomahawk]

I know a couple of Roman facts that are interesting.

First: and least important Romans invented the modern bathroom complete with plumbing. They were called vomitoriums because Roman senators and Roman elite enjoyed food and eating so much that instead of being satisfied by one meal at banquet they would vomit the first meal and then return to the banquet tables to eat a second. Hence the name of the room where this practice took place.

Second: It is rumored when word of descent, from a foriegn land under the control of the Romans made it's way to rome. A battalion would march to the village and make camp in the middle for 2 days. If even one word that displeased the generals ear was utterd, the Romans would burn it to the ground taking nothing and killing all who stood in the way. These were the "Riot" and "crowd" control tactics of the period.

[thirsty]

the series was quite good. historical fiction but it presents some nice points to the late Republic.


Do you consider everything outside the bible fiction?

[Mr. Drags]

Do you consider everything outside the bible fiction?
pardon, what does that have to do with the Roman republic portrayed in this series?

[Rightwingnut]

pardon, what does that have to do with the Roman republic portrayed in this series?

I think some people just dont understand what the term Historical Fiction refers to Drags.

They confuse it with Revisionism.

[Mr. Drags]

I think some people just dont understand what the term Historical Fiction refers to Drags.

They confuse it with Revisionism.
I think you're correct there buddy. I've been trying to figure out what faith has to do with portraying fictionalized accounts of Pullo and Vorenus around the fall of the Republic.

It's beyond me how daft some people can be

[Mr. Drags]

I think some people just dont understand what the term Historical Fiction refers to Drags.

They confuse it with Revisionism.
I think you're correct there buddy. I've been trying to figure out what faith has to do with portraying fictionalized accounts of Pullo and Vorenus around the fall of the Republic.

It's beyond me how daft some people can be

[mohamhead]

Gibbon is not the place to start. In order to understand Rome you should begin with LIVY! Have a nice read, check back in a year or so!

MO:add16:

[Tomahawk]

Gibbon is not the place to start. In order to understand Rome you should begin with LIVY! Have a nice read, check back in a year or so!

MO:add16:cyas!

[Rightwingnut]

One of the coolest things about Rome is the subtle things it shows. Like the public Orator plugging his sponser at the end of announcements. :D

They do a good job of showing that people are people no matter what era....they take the myth out of it while presenting a fiction.

[pixikill]

heres an interesting point.

what added to their lunacy was the fact that their glazes for their ceramics which was used for food recepticles, was coloured with lead. they used lead in contact with food everywhere. they suffered alot from lead poisoning. people aspired to aquiring to have tableware of such beautiful colours, that only lead based glazes can give.

[Ridgerunner]

Gibbon is not the place to start. In order to understand Rome you should begin with LIVY! Have a nice read, check back in a year or so!

MO:add16:


I agree with Mo! The works of Titus Livius, or as English-speaking peoples know him, Livy, is the place to start. That way you get the perspective of a Roman citizen on the history of Rome. Gibbon is great commentary, after you finish Livy!

By the way, you can download the complete surviving works of Livy for FREE, at

http://www.gutenberg.org/

Can't beat that for a bargain, huh? :add35:

[Camp]

I like to run counter to convention. Besides I already started Gibbon. In the back of the first volume is an add for another book called "The Fall of the Congo Arabs" by Sidney L. Hinde. I need to find a copy of this one too. Two survivors tell the tale of a three year war in which 70,000 Arabs perished.

[Mr. Drags]

I like to run counter to convention. Besides I already started Gibbon. In the back of the first volume is an add for another book called "The Fall of the Congo Arabs" by Sidney L. Hinde. I need to find a copy of this one too. Two survivors tell the tale of a three year war in which 70,000 Arabs perished.
there's nothing wrong with beginning with a secondary source, especially if it leads you to the primary sources and your own analysis

[mohamhead]

By the way, you can download the complete surviving works of Livy for FREE, at
http://www.gutenberg.org/ Can't beat that for a bargain, huh? :add35:

Damn, what a great link!

MO :happy_01:

[Ridgerunner]

I like to run counter to convention. Besides I already started Gibbon. In the back of the first volume is an add for another book called "The Fall of the Congo Arabs" by Sidney L. Hinde. I need to find a copy of this one too. Two survivors tell the tale of a three year war in which 70,000 Arabs perished.


That book was published in 1897, so you must have an older edition of Gibbon, but still one about a hundred years after DFRE was first published. But then, I don't know how many editions it went through, do I? Dr. Sidney L. Hinde was born July 23, 1863 and died October 18, 1930, so he survived a visit to the Congo at a time when the life expectancy of the white man was a bit less than two years. Dr. Hinde is said to be "the English captain of the Expedition of Francis Dhanis (Bwana Fimbo Mingi)" by Professor Antoine Dmandja in discussing Ngongo Letata.

I don't find anything about it on the free sites, like Project Gutenberg or Blackmask, but you will find a single copy of it for sale at



http://www.alibris.com

They're asking a bit more than eighteen dollars for it. Hope this helps. :add35:

[Mr. Drags]

That book was published in 1897, so you must have an older edition of Gibbon, but still one about a hundred years after DFRE was first published. But then, I don't know how many editions it went through, do I? Dr. Sidney L. Hinde was born July 23, 1863 and died October 18, 1930, so he survived a visit to the Congo at a time when the life expectancy of the white man was a bit less than two years. Dr. Hinde is said to be "the English captain of the Expedition of Francis Dhanis (Bwana Fimbo Mingi)" by Professor Antoine Dmandja in discussing Ngongo Letata.

I don't find anything about it on the free sites, like Project Gutenberg or Blackmask, but you will find a single copy of it for sale at



http://www.alibris.com

They're asking a bit more than eighteen dollars for it. Hope this helps. :add35:check half.com. I've picked up a lot of texts and novels from there cheap

[Camp]

That book was published in 1897, so you must have an older edition of Gibbon, but still one about a hundred years after DFRE was first published. But then, I don't know how many editions it went through, do I? Dr. Sidney L. Hinde was born July 23, 1863 and died October 18, 1930, so he survived a visit to the Congo at a time when the life expectancy of the white man was a bit less than two years. Dr. Hinde is said to be "the English captain of the Expedition of Francis Dhanis (Bwana Fimbo Mingi)" by Professor Antoine Dmandja in discussing Ngongo Letata.

I don't find anything about it on the free sites, like Project Gutenberg or Blackmask, but you will find a single copy of it for sale at



http://www.alibris.com

They're asking a bit more than eighteen dollars for it. Hope this helps. :add35:


That isn't too bad. A used reprint for 18.94. My "older" edition is from 1896 and is a library copy. My reading last night covered the defeat of Decius and his son at the hands of the Goths and the reinstitution of the censor. Looks like things are about to go from bad to very very bad soon.

[Ridgerunner]

That isn't too bad. A used reprint for 18.94. My "older" edition is from 1896 and is a library copy. My reading last night covered the defeat of Decius and his son at the hands of the Goths and the re-institution of the censor. Looks like things are about to go from bad to very very bad soon.


Don't you just love the library sales where they get rid of their "old and little used books"? I have seven-volume sets of the complete works of Kipling and Robert Browning, acquired at such sales for practically nothing. My own copy of Gibbon is the two-volume unit in Britannica's Great Books—much later and with far smaller type than your copy, I suspect.

I recall an old question I was never able to settle to my satisfaction: Valerian took the revived office of Roman Censor according to Gibbon, or at least he implies it in contrasting the first years of his reign with those of Decius. But Gibbon doesn't make clear whether he's talking about Valerian in the office of a powerful censor, with powers to rival that of the emperor himself, or of Valerian's term as emperor. Some authorities have it that Decius offered the office to Valerian because he was seen as the most incorruptible candidate available; others state that Decius left the question to the senate, who selected Valerian unanimously; and still others say that although the senate offered Valerian the office, he recognized that it could be a pitfall in his path to the office of emperor and refused to take it. Have you done any parallel reading on this question?

Whatever, here's to library sales...:add35:

[Camp]

Don't you just love the library sales where they get rid of their "old and little used books"? I have seven-volume sets of the complete works of Kipling and Robert Browning, acquired at such sales for practically nothing. My own copy of Gibbon is the two-volume unit in Britannica's Great Books—much later and with far smaller type than your copy, I suspect.

I recall an old question I was never able to settle to my satisfaction: Valerian took the revived office of Roman Censor according to Gibbon, or at least he implies it in contrasting the first years of his reign with those of Decius. But Gibbon doesn't make clear whether he's talking about Valerian in the office of a powerful censor, with powers to rival that of the emperor himself, or of Valerian's term as emperor. Some authorities have it that Decius offered the office to Valerian because he was seen as the most incorruptible candidate available; others state that Decius left the question to the senate, who selected Valerian unanimously; and still others say that although the senate offered Valerian the office, he recognized that it could be a pitfall in his path to the office of emperor and refused to take it. Have you done any parallel reading on this question?

Whatever, here's to library sales...:add35:


No parallel reading, but my interpretation was that Valerian did not want the post due to it having fallen out of custom and being an improbable task. He took the post as a favor to the sovereign and at the unbiased vote of the Senate. Then as a shrewd politician he grew the power of the post and used it to propel him to Emperor by avenging the death of Decius when he brought the army back to Rome. He enjoyed a relatively long reign for the era most likely I think due to the pressing of the empire by the Goths and the need for a capable leader which he was.

[Camp]

That book was published in 1897, so you must have an older edition of Gibbon, but still one about a hundred years after DFRE was first published. But then, I don't know how many editions it went through, do I? Dr. Sidney L. Hinde was born July 23, 1863 and died October 18, 1930, so he survived a visit to the Congo at a time when the life expectancy of the white man was a bit less than two years. Dr. Hinde is said to be "the English captain of the Expedition of Francis Dhanis (Bwana Fimbo Mingi)" by Professor Antoine Dmandja in discussing Ngongo Letata.

I don't find anything about it on the free sites, like Project Gutenberg or Blackmask, but you will find a single copy of it for sale at



http://www.alibris.com

They're asking a bit more than eighteen dollars for it. Hope this helps. :add35:

I found an 1897 copy of "Fall of the Congo Arabs" in my library and let me tell you it is an exceptional read. Hinde details the cannibalism that was predominant in the cetral Congo at that time. It would appear ALL tribes were active, or recently reformed, cannibals and the slackers were eaten if they did not do their share. Only the most unreformable cannibals were shot after a trial. Children often being the preferred meal. I did not expect this angle when I picked up the book. I was looking for the Arab conquest pattern which also appears much the same as we have seen throughout history. This book is tough to set aside. Gibbon will have to wait a bit.

[OldGit]

I just started reading Edward Gibbon "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire." It is seven volumes and covers the reign of Augustus (AD 93) through the fall of Constaninople in 1453. I have already learned where we get the term commode from. The rule of Commodus was most destructive. Great detail and enjoyable reading for a work written over 200 years ago. The copy I am reading is a library book published in 1896 and still on the lender shelf.

If you need to give it back before you finish (it's quite a work) you can find it free online here:

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/

[Camp]

If you need to give it back before you finish (it's quite a work) you can find it free online here:

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/


Thanks, but I am starting volume 2 now. Finished the "Fall of the Cono Arabs" and it was a superb first person historical account. If you read it you will learn more about cannibalism than you ever wanted to know.